"UK settles WWII debts to allies"

[Angus]

"They borrowed 4.3 billion, paid back....9 billion over 50 years? WHAT would a 1945 dollar be worth in 2006?"

I think the value is calibrated, but it's still low interest.

Anyway, the USA remains the one (?) WW2 nation to get paid up, and they even sold some crap instead of scrapping it.
Did the British (Commonwealth, do not forget that the first gold the USA picked up before the lend lease was launched was in S-Africa) get paid by anyone? Yes, partially from the USSR at least. Did the French pay? (they were still getting paid by the Germans from WWI untill the start of WWII)
And the USSR, yes they had to pay the UK and USA, but actually when the British were ALONE and PAYING the USA, the USSR was SELLING and getting PAYED by GERMANY.

All a bit,,,confusing.

[Nilsen]

War is business. Always has been and always will. It has to be that way unless its a commie country.

The Norwegian government set up a company called nortraship in London during  the war and pooled all the free merchants into that company.(by the outbreak of ww2 norway had the largest merchant fleet in the world)  They profited from hauling stuff all over the world (but mostly across the atlantic) , and the money Nortraship made by the other allies bought more ships from US shipyards and also gave us the oportunity to order the fuel for the ships, warships, planes and other stuff from the US and britain that we needed to fight with. Without those norwegian merchants the war in the atlantic would prolly have been lost and they also played a role (althoug lesser) in the pacific.

The brits gave us some stuff to fight with and included our personel into their ranks but without the money made by the brave merchant sailors we would never have had all the other shiny stuff.

[Angus]

One of my great uncles sailed, - I belive- with the Norse in WW2.
His ship had been sunk twice before he was 16! In the later case, he was one of 2 survivors.
Gritty "business".

[Vudak]

I apologize to the Commonwealth But when I said "Britain stood alone" I meant the British Empire, which I included you all in, despite differeing levels of independence at the time

The bottom line is (this is for the America is awezum! peoples):

We (the people) were too shortsighted and selfish to get involved.

They (the British and Commonwealth people) weren't.

An interesting thought is, why do you guys think we would have suddenly gotten involved in the European theatre of WW2 if Britain had already been eliminated?

Was it because we saw the light and did that for Poland or France?

I think you all need to consult some history books that weren't published in New York...  There's bigger sides to this story than just ours.

Anyway, I'm away from the internet from the weekend, so chip away

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Roscoroo
as for the loans most of that was done in '45-46 to help everyone rebuild . not just for England but to most of the country's devistated by the War.

If you are referring to the Marshall Plan, that was in the form of some $13 Billion in grants that the Euros could use to purchase American goods: grants, not loans.

[Makarov9]

Originally posted by Ball
but "they saved us"... you mean we had to buy legitimately all of the equipment they supplied so we could fight off the forces of evil and have our guys getting killed while they sat watching for years?

But I thought we shouldn't be the World's police?

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by john9001
your wrong.

You haven't made a valid point in this thread.   Eat more scooby snacks.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by fd ski
before you guys get too excited, did you know that poland right after the war paid for ALL equipment, ammo, everything else that polish servicemen in western front used ?

Considering how during same time Roosevelt sold thier tulips to uncle Joe so that they could be thrown in jail upon their return ( some executed) is kinda ironic...

And they weren't even defending their own country, they were defending britain.

Look up Victory Parade in London while you're at it.

I've often used this as an example fd ski.   <> I hope things are going well for you.

[Angus]

Nobody got screwed more in WW2 than the Polish. The most decimated city in WW2 was actually...Warshaw. Not Berlin, Hiroshima, Hamburg or Coventry.
Poland was the line that the Nazis crossed, and the nations who declared war on them were the British and the French.
As things went, the Brits (Commonwealth included, - which is important) carried on, ALONE, and while the Nazis were suckling on several European countries (Poland, France, Lowlands, Norway&Denmark etc), the Brits were paying their U.S. manufactured gear in gold. In the meantime, the USSR was doing deals with the Nazis.
So, as I see it, the USA should have flushed those "depts" years ago. Just to keep a good face.

[john9001]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
You haven't made a valid point in this thread.   Eat more scooby snacks.

"at the time of D-day the russians had turned the fight on the eastern front and were pushing the germans back, the americans were in italy pushing the germans out of there, and operation dragoon, the invasion of southern france was scheduled. Even without the island of england to launch D-day from germany had lost the war, it would just have taken a little longer."

[Angus]

The turnpoints in the USSR actually happened at the same time (strange!) as major turnpoints in the med. While the med was very much smaller in scale, it still was a help, - Stalingrad makes the turn at the time of operation Torch in N-Africa, and Kursk happens at the time of the invasion of Sicily.
There are certainly different opinions about this, but IMHO, if the Brits had made a Truce with Germany in Summer 1940 (No BoB) and thereby lifted the naval blockade, - Germany would have beaten the USSR.
Not the topic though.

[scottydawg]

Originally posted by Angus
Nobody got screwed more in WW2 than the Polish. The most decimated city in WW2 was actually...Warshaw. Not Berlin, Hiroshima, Hamburg or Coventry.
Poland was the line that the Nazis crossed, and the nations who declared war on them were the British and the French.
As things went, the Brits (Commonwealth included, - which is important) carried on, ALONE, and while the Nazis were suckling on several European countries (Poland, France, Lowlands, Norway&Denmark etc), the Brits were paying their U.S. manufactured gear in gold. In the meantime, the USSR was doing deals with the Nazis.
So, as I see it, the USA should have flushed those "depts" years ago. Just to keep a good face.

Not to mention getting screwed by being made a Communist puppet state for 50 years after WWII because the Allies were too worn down and spineless to stand up to Stalin after the war was over.

[Angus]

Originally posted by scottydawg
Not to mention getting screwed by being made a Communist puppet state for 50 years after WWII because the Allies were too worn down and spineless to stand up to Stalin after the war was over.

You can call some 50 years of cold war "spineless" if it pleases you.
What would have been the alternative? A land warfare between former allies which would have outscaled WW2 by a vaste amount?
Anyway, if you bring the focus down to Poland only, guess what. At Yalta (or was it Teheran?), Churchill was the only of 3 leaders to insist that Poland was to be a sovereign state at the war's end, while Stalin did not agree. The point of pivot was the U.S., with Roosevelt (already failing in health) at the steer.
Churchill lost. But he sure had the spine.

[Thrawn]

I wonder what the effect of one nuke going off in Russia would have been.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by john9001
"at the time of D-day the russians had turned the fight on the eastern front and were pushing the germans back, the americans were in italy pushing the germans out of there, and operation dragoon, the invasion of southern france was scheduled. Even without the island of england to launch D-day from germany had lost the war, it would just have taken a little longer."

I have yet to read one book that "praised the Invasion of Italy".