Saddam's not dead

[Neubob]

Originally posted by moot
Neubob I think there is paint drying somewhere near you, and it is worthier of your time... Every moment you spend concerning yourself with something **** is a moment you could've spent on something good, that you're never getting back.

Criminals stop being newsworthy as soon as their criminality is neutralized.

I agree with this. A moot point is a moot point. However, the reason I made that post was because those images were and will remain haunting, and in the future, when these worthless emotions are dulled, those images will serve as a reminder that death is always mysterious, frightening, and terminal.

Ripley, if you're going to use any excuse available to make jabs at American politics, I would appreciate it if in the future, you excercised a little discretion on whose name you use. I made my post out of my own surprise towards my gut response to a man's death. If you're looking for an avenue to find fault with US policy, you've got plenty of more relevant facts and ideas from which to draw.

[Neubob]

Originally posted by cav58d
***By the way, I do not share any of Neubob's feelings of remorse and possibly regret.  Infact, I was partying in Manhattan the night of his execution, and throughout the night took celebatory shots that the piece of watermelon is dead.

You know cav, when I first felt this remorse, I was ashamed of myself. Thanks for bringing me back to reality.

You're a real man.

[B@tfinkV]

i'm right with you there neubob.


i didnt feel sorry that Saddam was being killed, i felt sorry for a human in an impossible situation, i felt moved by the imagery of a formal excecution.



i tried putting myself in his shoes, looking into his soon to be dead eyes.


it was haunting, and of that i have no shame.


i go hunting rats with a long stick, they play havoc in our chicken feed shed. i still feel sorry for them after ive broken thier backs, and i have to aim a finishing blow to the head.  its something along those lines.


(PS: hes not dead)

[Neubob]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV



i didnt feel sorry that Saddam was being killed, i felt sorry for a human in an impossible situation, i felt moved by the imagery of a formal excecution.

i tried putting myself in his shoes, looking into his soon to be dead eyes.

it was haunting, and of that i have no shame.
 

That's pretty much everything I was getting at.

[john9001]

"one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic",  Joe Stalin.


saddam was a butcher, he tortured people to death, i don't understand how you could feel remorse for his death.  I feel sorry for all the people he murdered.

[cav58d]

Originally posted by Neubob
[B You're a real man. [/B]

I'm very sorry to upset your gentile sensibilties, but the death of this man was important to me.  I lost a very close friend from college in Baghdad, 2003 when Sadaam was still be hunted down...I have many other friends who have made it back, but life just isn't the same because of pts...Sadaam is one of the very few people on the earth, that I can block out any human remorse during his death...maybe I came off rough before, this isn't attacking you...Guess it just shows, people deal with situations in different ways

[moot]

I don't see what's so special about Saddam.  I think it's ironic you're the sort that'll point out the irony in some pretty cynical situations, but then go soft on a full blown dictator's death by the sword, after his living by it, willfully.

That "haunting" look in his eyes, I think, is the same as any other deer's in the headlights..  Really, if anything, I think it's ridiculous someone could play with fire so much, and then deflate when what he knew would come, should he let it, came.

Now, Castro, on the other hand..  I don't know if I'll be able to keep my composure when he stops swinging his arms like clockwork, in his running suit.  It's just so down to earth and innocent, all my senses of justice fly out the window.

[Neubob]

Originally posted by moot
I think it's ironic you're the sort that'll point out the irony in some pretty cynical situations, but then go soft on a full blown dictator's death by the sword, after his living by it, willfully.

It is ironic. Like I said, I was surprised by my own reaction, and remain surprised. What's so special about this situation is that his was a face that I became unintentionally familiar with, and then witnessed the last moment of its existence. What fink said about a man in an impossible situation, and the subsequent empathy is especially relevant. I imagined myself with that noose around my head, imagined my loved ones watching it on TV, and I was terrified.

Cav, I really don't want to get into a political discussion with you on this matter. This is certainly not the time for it, and I doubt you'd be receptive it it were...If you feel that Saddam killed somebody that was close to you, you have all the right in the world to feel angry or vengeful. God knows I've felt both anger and hatred towards people who have had less direct effect on my life.

What remains valid is this: Whenever humanity must resort to execution, it is a symptom of a much greater tragedy. That tragedy is not over, and no matter how many times you hang him, justice will never be achieved. The killing was a gesture, and a very real one that that. He deserved it, as much as anyone ever has....I only wished I'd never been stupid enough to watch it.

[moot]

I agree, but not with the part where you're terrified to be in his shoes.
In his shoes, I'd have lived like a Kingly Bastard, and just like everyone else, had to die some day, and that day came after milking life beyond its last drop...  He would have had to be pretty unconscious or foolish to go all this time, or even make the first step with the end in mind (and I think someone of his caliber knew what the end was, as he first undertook the means to it), fearing that end.  If that's what happened, then I agree.. but I don't think that's how it happened.
I think that even if I were such a tyrant, I couldn't have made it so far without a pretty accurate understanding of how life works, so that when the noose went around my head, it would have felt like the Right thing.  I would have gone with a clear conscience.

That's what I mean when I say he is not special.. he went out in an orderly way, relative to the seeds he'd planted.
I don't mean to split hairs, just pointing out why I come to a different conclusion from the same premise.

[B@tfinkV]

i think the majority of neubobs thoughts relate to the fact that:

A) Saddam has been a household name and face for 15 years+, we usualy relate him to political images of a proud leader, an unstoppable power. To see this figure calmly marched to the gallows and gently strung up into a man made contraption for killing, is somewhat strange.  

B)watching any lifeform trapped, cornered, accepting its own death without a struggle, is somehow haunting and upsetting.


the bit i underline is what gets me the most, its difficult to imagine the feelings he wold have felt right then, but starting to imagine them makes me feel a bit saddened by humanity in general, no matter the crime.

[moot]

If that's so, then we'll just agree to disagree.  I don't know if it's new year's or what,  I'm feeling pretty zen.

A) is normal, otherwise it wouldn't have happened.  It seems to me that you're saying you're feeling disillusioned, but (I don't mean this ofensively at all) that's your own doing.  It's not a matter of right and wrong, in general or in this case, it's just an eerie self-conscious check letting you know you've let a faulty idea run unchecked.
He passed for something, and reality has dispelled that something for what it really was.  If anything, I think it should be sobering in a comforting way; what's more uncomfortable than being out of touch with reality?

B) is normal too, if there is nothing the lifeform can do.  Fretting over something you can do nothing about is absurd because in vain.

And feelings, well what do you expect?  They're always a gamble, they're not sanctionned by reason.

[wetrat]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
just throwing the idea  out there.

i've found alot of footage of the build up to the death sentance including putting the noose round his neck.

has anyone seen footage of the trap door dropping?

just a chance, but i think its possible this historic event may be a fake.

im not certain of course, just a hunch.


does anyone have evidence that he is very much dead right now?

I've seen foottage of him hanging dead on the rope... pretty ****ed up, really. He is very much dead.

[Thrawn]

If I had been there I would have beat his body like a pinata, ate a whole cow, quaffed a keg of beer and lay with a hundred women...because I'm Thrawn: Internet Tough Guy.

[moot]

ad hominem

[CHECKERS]

Originally posted by WhiteHawk
http://videos.netscape.com/story/2006/12/30/saddam-execution-video-full-including-the-drop


 not for morbid giggles but just to see  the result of the search for WMD's.  I personally have mixed feelings about this.  Was he executed for murdering his own people or just for murder?  If so, which leader hasnt had to liquidate some competitors along the path to gain power?  Are the US marines who are on trial for murder going to be hanged?  Or is this just a personal grudge against saddam by The Bush's?  Maybe a strong message to the leaders of Syria and Iran?

 I think Syria .... "gets It " , Iran hasn't a clue, ......yet .....
  Take a look at this little cartoon .... might shead some light .

http://oldbluejacket.com/A%20Message%20From%20The%20General.htm