Author Topic: Armed Border Incursion  (Read 1692 times)

Offline CptTrips

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Armed Border Incursion
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2007, 03:23:02 PM »
You're right.  It must have been a wedding party.


Everything I'm seeing states the Gaurdsmen abandonded their position.  Can you provide me your link to that BP interview?  Besides, I'd bet 20% of the BP is in the direct pay of the drug gangs.  Weren't they notifying Mexico's goverment of Minuteman positions a few months ago?  


From what I read, the BP didn't say that no shots were fired.
"The Border Patrol will not say whether shots were fired."

My guess is that there weren't, Which is my problem.  If 20 armed men crossed that border, there should be 20 body bags.


http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/85705/National_Guard_Overrun_at_US_Mexico_Border


Wab







Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
FWIW,

I'm in AZ. right now and that story has little resmblence to the actual footage of a BP rep that was broadcast yesterday for the 5 PM and 6 PM news report.

Per the interview.

Guardsmen did not retreat.
No shots fired
No "attack" was made by either side
The armed uniformed party from Mexico approached towards the Guard observation post then retreated on their own. They didn't have an accurate range of approach yet at the time of the report. There was no indication that even words were exchanged between the groups. The Guardsmen were in contact with BP at the time and BP was responding. The Guardsmen's lawn chairs and ice chest were still in position and in good order as shown in the video of the out post.

You can rest easy. Mexico did NOT invade us. yet.

This is not that unusual a happening along the border.
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline LePaul

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« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2007, 04:39:43 PM »
Call me crazy but I think the border with Mexico should use the model set forth by the DMZ zone between North and South Korea :)

Offline Brenjen

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« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2007, 05:13:35 PM »
According to the natl. news broadcasts the army natl. guard troops stationed at the observation post are armed.....they have no ammunition, but they are armed (lol armed with black clubs that have a handy sling) & that the armed party of unidentified armed individuals stormed the observation post causing the army natl guard troops to flee. No one was injured & it was unclear at this time if any shots were fired or what the nationality of the armed invaders actually was.

 Our military forces should never give up ground on our own soil & if the military is stationed on our border (& they should be) they should be locked & loaded. I am 100% against using any military forces to police the citizenry of the United States of America, but that is not their mission when they are stationed on a foreign border to prevent incursions. I think we should have armor & air patrols as well. When those guardsmen were confronted they should have been able to defend themselves & our country with full air, artillery & armored support....maybe it's time to park a carrier battle group off of Mexico's coast.

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2007, 05:19:41 PM »
Here is a link to the story. I have no idea what you are seeing there, but from an area far closer to the scene it bears little resemblence to the start of this thread.

http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=5893881&nav=menu216_3_3

Let me know if the link works, they have a TON of java script trying to run.

I checked the other TV station web sites and they do not show any mention of this incident, curious.


Now do you have a link that can corroborate your claim of 20% of the BP being in the drug gangs employ?


Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit
You're right.  It must have been a wedding party.


Everything I'm seeing states the Gaurdsmen abandonded their position.  Can you provide me your link to that BP interview?  Besides, I'd bet 20% of the BP is in the direct pay of the drug gangs.  Weren't they notifying Mexico's goverment of Minuteman positions a few months ago?  


From what I read, the BP didn't say that no shots were fired.
"The Border Patrol will not say whether shots were fired."

My guess is that there weren't, Which is my problem.  If 20 armed men crossed that border, there should be 20 body bags.


http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/85705/National_Guard_Overrun_at_US_Mexico_Border


Wab
« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 06:04:53 PM by Maverick »
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Offline Maverick

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« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2007, 06:02:46 PM »
freaking dupe thread, sigh
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
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Offline JB88

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« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2007, 06:43:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Brenjen
According to the natl. news broadcasts the army natl. guard troops stationed at the observation post are armed.....they have no ammunition, but they are armed (lol armed with black clubs that have a handy sling) & that the armed party of unidentified armed individuals stormed the observation post causing the army natl guard troops to flee. No one was injured & it was unclear at this time if any shots were fired or what the nationality of the armed invaders actually was.

 Our military forces should never give up ground on our own soil & if the military is stationed on our border (& they should be) they should be locked & loaded. I am 100% against using any military forces to police the citizenry of the United States of America, but that is not their mission when they are stationed on a foreign border to prevent incursions. I think we should have armor & air patrols as well. When those guardsmen were confronted they should have been able to defend themselves & our country with full air, artillery & armored support....maybe it's time to park a carrier battle group off of Mexico's coast.


i couldnt possibly agree more.
this thread is doomed.
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Offline cpxxx

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« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2007, 07:22:10 AM »
Reading the reports and looking at it logically the Guardsmen did the right thing assuming a couple of things.

The observation post, I would assume is not a heavily sandbagged sangar designed to repel waves of infantry and artillery fire. If it was like the one in the VT it's basically soft cover thus useless as protection. The only sensible reaction would be to give up the position and move to a point giving greater cover.

Presumably their ROE was not to engage anyone unless they presented a direct threat.  Plus according to the report they were only five strong in an isolated position at night. They are National Guard not Delta Force after all.

So as far as I can see they did the right thing. They followed their ROE, called for reinforcements and retreated to a more secure location.

Nothing wrong with that.

Incidentally, I have to confess to being involved in an armed border incursion  myself, not into the USA though but we invaded the UK. When I was a member of the Irish equivalent of the National Guard. We were patrolling in platoon strength in a forest along the border with Northern Ireland when somehow we crossed over quite a long way. Fortunately the mistake was realised and we withdrew. This was during the troubles and if we had come across British security forces it could have been nasty if they had mistaken us for terrorists or vice versa. :eek:  However I do like to think we would have given a good account of ourselves in any firefight. There was a rumour of just such a covered up incident, both sides thinking they were fighting the IRA.:rofl

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2007, 09:57:15 AM »
they should way their black clubs around and then run away it that doesn't work.   Wouldn't want anyone to get hurt.   If the mexicans demand it the guardsmen should throw down their weapons and gear before they run away.

lazs

Offline Edbert

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« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2007, 10:20:49 AM »
Here's a video link to the news story...will probably have to paste the whole thing due to java code.

http://javascript:open_MediaPlayer('http://www.azcentral.com/phpAPP/multimedia/player.php?path=mms%3A%2F%2Fwms.azcentral.com%2Fkpnx%2Fnews%2F0104guardstormed6pm.wmv','mediaplayer','toolbar=no,scrollbars=no,resizable=no,width=300,height=300')

Grrrr...BBS code is seeing the "colon o" as a smiley!

The video is a border patrol spokesman saying that they and the national guard were forced to retreat when confronted my armed Mexicans on US soil in order to avoid getting anybody hurt. I see no other determination that can be made other than that the border patrol and the national guard are neither.

The video is linked from here too: http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/borderstory0104-CR.html
« Last Edit: January 06, 2007, 10:25:17 AM by Edbert »

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2007, 10:38:53 AM »
they did the right thing... secure borders are not worth someone getting angry or even hurt over.   Besides... how can you trust guardsmen with live ammo anyhow?   It's not like they are swat ninjas or anything.

lazs

Offline lukster

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« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2007, 11:48:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
they did the right thing... secure borders are not worth someone getting angry or even hurt over.   Besides... how can you trust guardsmen with live ammo anyhow?   It's not like they are swat ninjas or anything.

lazs


My sarcasm detector is pinging.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2007, 10:47:36 AM »
having guns pointed at you (even empty ones) is stressful...  I am surprised the ACLU has not taken up the cause of these poor immigrants and sued the national guard for pain and suffering.    

Running away is not good enough....  they should never have been there to hamper immigration and commerce in the first place.

lazs

Offline lukster

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« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2007, 10:50:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
having guns pointed at you (even empty ones) is stressful...  I am surprised the ACLU has not taken up the cause of these poor immigrants and sued the national guard for pain and suffering.    

Running away is not good enough....  they should never have been there to hamper immigration and commerce in the first place.

lazs


Be surprised no longer, the ACLU has most definitely taken up the plight of the illegal immigrant.

http://www.aclu.org/immigrants/index.html



Didn't take the ACLU long to focus their virtually unlimited resources (your tax dollars) against the Texas city of Farmers Branch.

http://www.aclu.org/immigrants/discrim/27799prs20061227.html
« Last Edit: January 07, 2007, 11:03:01 AM by lukster »

Offline Mr No Name

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« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2007, 05:59:02 PM »
We should be lighting up anything that crosses the border outside of an established checkpoint.
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Offline Neubob

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« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2007, 08:52:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
having guns pointed at you (even empty ones) is stressful...  I am surprised the ACLU has not taken up the cause of these poor immigrants and sued the national guard for pain and suffering.    


Intentional infliction of emotional distress... Give it some time.