Author Topic: Fun in aceshigh doesnt get any better than this  (Read 2467 times)

storch

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my eye sight at 50 is still excellent
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2007, 01:59:24 AM »
ok mark off 1000 yds and try to hit something 4'x8' with a 30.06.  this is doable by most people.  now try the same thing while jumping on a trampoline. :D   take the same scenario except reduce the target to 36" in diameter, very few untrained shooters will hit the target.  now jump back on the trampoline.  clueless cartoon warriors are hoot.

Offline B@tfinkV

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« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2007, 03:02:19 AM »
lets get it into perspective a second storch.


first off, we are not sniping with a single bullet from a rifle. We are hurling huge ammounts of lead from multiple rapid fire machine guns.


secondly, yes you are correct, "very few untrained shooters will hit the target"

thats just it, we arnt 'untrained', we are more experienced in this virtual combat than any of our real life counter parts could have ever hoped to be.

third, and most impostantly, this is a game with set limitations. no matter if the limitations are totaly realistic or not, they are the laws of virtual physics that we all play by, and we all have an equal chance to get the very most out of them.



Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
I'm a 50 cal guy, seeing that I almost exclusively fly the FM2, but I find it incredible that you could land that many hits at that distance with a guns convergence set at 375 yards.

Not debating that it didn't happen or couldn't happen with 50 cals, cause they WILL  reach out and "touch ya" ... I just find it strange under those conditions.


it is unlikely slapshot, i wouldnt care to deny that.


i have taken the liberty of drawing up a quick sketch to explain my theory behind effective use of wing mounted 50cals over great range.




so as we can see from my rudementary artwork, if one is using a P47 with 4 guns per wing it is still more than possible to hit a plane at 1000yrds with the force of 4 guns.

the trick is to aim to the side so that the rapidly seperating streams of bullets are still half 'on target'.

blue line shows where one should aim the cross hair for such a shot, and the yellow lines show the two streams of rounds seperating more the longer the range, untill at about 1100yrds, where i think HTC has set the limit for computing 50cal rounds trajectory and damage.


Here is the corresponding image of that diagram taken from the AH film viewer, clearly showing the same blue and yellow lines with the target circled in red.





i think these two images show the exact same thing from the game angle and the diagramatic angle.





hit sprites:



MOST fascinating about these images for me is the last one in that set of hit sprites.


on the left wing we can clearly see an actual tracer round penetrating the skin of the aircraft and leaving a hitsprite.  now thats a quality gunnery model, thanks HT.


i also would like to point out that this only shows about half of the recorded sprites, it is close to impossible to capture a single frame that shows every last hit sprite.

i think the fact that the 190 was leaking fuel may have contributed to starting a fire, quite obviously. i wonder if HT has modeled fuel leaks to be more flamable.



anyhow, thats basically my take on how to use 8X50cals effectively at long ranges when you have your convergence set in close.



salute all


bat
« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 03:07:04 AM by B@tfinkV »
 400 yrds on my tail, right where i want you... [/size]

Offline Schatzi

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« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2007, 04:00:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by G0ALY
Actually, yes it is one of the first films I’ve watched. I had to make a quick film and check it. Odd that you do not hear your own engine.
So, the truth is… We’ll never know if it’s turned off. LOL!



Watch the gauges.... rpm and MP will tell you his exact engine settings....
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Offline Rollins

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« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2007, 04:43:34 AM »
Batfink you said chick16:rofl
:aok
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Offline Have

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« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2007, 06:13:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
on the left wing we can clearly see an actual tracer round penetrating the skin of the aircraft and leaving a hitsprite.  now thats a quality gunnery model, thanks HT.
 


OT: I think that's just an graphics bug and totally unintentional :)


T: Batfink, you should know that those kind of gunnery images should be highly classified and not for the public eye. Soon those 1000yd shots can be seen every day and that ain't fun.
Good shooting btw :)

Offline B@tfinkV

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« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2007, 08:02:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Have
OT: I think that's just an graphics bug and totally unintentional :)


 



you could be right! im no programming genius, infact i dont have the first clue.


looks good though, eh? :)
 400 yrds on my tail, right where i want you... [/size]

Offline SlapShot

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Re: my eye sight at 50 is still excellent
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2007, 10:17:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
ok mark off 1000 yds and try to hit something 4'x8' with a 30.06.  this is doable by most people.  now try the same thing while jumping on a trampoline. :D   take the same scenario except reduce the target to 36" in diameter, very few untrained shooters will hit the target.  now jump back on the trampoline.  clueless cartoon warriors are hoot.


Why are we using targets that are 4'x8' or 36" ? ... and a trampoline no less ?
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Offline SkyRock

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« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2007, 10:22:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
lets get it into perspective a second storch.


first off, we are not sniping with a single bullet from a rifle. We are hurling huge ammounts of lead from multiple rapid fire machine guns.


secondly, yes you are correct, "very few untrained shooters will hit the target"

thats just it, we arnt 'untrained', we are more experienced in this virtual combat than any of our real life counter parts could have ever hoped to be.

third, and most impostantly, this is a game with set limitations. no matter if the limitations are totaly realistic or not, they are the laws of virtual physics that we all play by, and we all have an equal chance to get the very most out of them.



 

it is unlikely slapshot, i wouldnt care to deny that.


i have taken the liberty of drawing up a quick sketch to explain my theory behind effective use of wing mounted 50cals over great range.




so as we can see from my rudementary artwork, if one is using a P47 with 4 guns per wing it is still more than possible to hit a plane at 1000yrds with the force of 4 guns.

the trick is to aim to the side so that the rapidly seperating streams of bullets are still half 'on target'.

blue line shows where one should aim the cross hair for such a shot, and the yellow lines show the two streams of rounds seperating more the longer the range, untill at about 1100yrds, where i think HTC has set the limit for computing 50cal rounds trajectory and damage.


Here is the corresponding image of that diagram taken from the AH film viewer, clearly showing the same blue and yellow lines with the target circled in red.





i think these two images show the exact same thing from the game angle and the diagramatic angle.





hit sprites:



MOST fascinating about these images for me is the last one in that set of hit sprites.


on the left wing we can clearly see an actual tracer round penetrating the skin of the aircraft and leaving a hitsprite.  now thats a quality gunnery model, thanks HT.


i also would like to point out that this only shows about half of the recorded sprites, it is close to impossible to capture a single frame that shows every last hit sprite.

i think the fact that the 190 was leaking fuel may have contributed to starting a fire, quite obviously. i wonder if HT has modeled fuel leaks to be more flamable.



anyhow, thats basically my take on how to use 8X50cals effectively at long ranges when you have your convergence set in close.



salute all


bat

This is exactly how I get many of my 800 to 1000 yrd kills.  I fly the hog and that's 3 50cals pouring lead into an enemy's six!  U just have to adjust and stabelize your platform, aim one set of guns and kablooeey, down goes teh RUNNAH!:aok

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storch

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Re: Re: my eye sight at 50 is still excellent
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2007, 10:40:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
Why are we using targets that are 4'x8' or 36" ? ... and a trampoline no less ?
a 4 x 8 target, say a sheet of plywood 1000 out makes it easier to see your hits with a 30x sighting scope.  a 36" diameter target at a 1000 is much harder to hit than a 4x8.  jump up and down on a trampoline to mimick the relative movements of your plane and the target plane. I think it might help a bit, taking in account minor annoyances such as wind, propwash, thermals, you know all that variable/random stuff which is difficult to model in a game at this time.

Offline SlapShot

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Re: Re: Re: my eye sight at 50 is still excellent
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2007, 10:54:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
a 4 x 8 target, say a sheet of plywood 1000 out makes it easier to see your hits with a 30x sighting scope.  a 36" diameter target at a 1000 is much harder to hit than a 4x8.  jump up and down on a trampoline to mimick the relative movements of your plane and the target plane. I think it might help a bit, taking in account minor annoyances such as wind, propwash, thermals, you know all that variable/random stuff which is difficult to model in a game at this time.


Ok ... so for the most part, most aircraft are larger that 4x8 and 36' wingtip to wingtip (;)) and we don't have any of those other "distractions" so making that type of shot in AH is not out of the realm of possibilities and very doable for a 50 cal.

I have a hard time hitting the dead six of a plane thats 250 in front of me ...  :D ... but at 800 out and showing full profile ... I will lay out a lead chain link fence and pepper the crap out of you and if I get the cockpit, they go poof.
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Offline humble

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« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2007, 11:36:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
my point exactly, I've looked at a target (goat) 1000 yds away with a scope and then with iron sights.  it's not a shot I felt comfortable taking through the scope, forget about the iron sights.  the longest I'll dare shoot at is 300yds with a good scope.  beyond that I can't say I'll get a clean kill.  that is from a steady rest with a great rifle, controlled breathing at a stationary target.

in BF's defense he's whacked me 800-1000 more times than I would really care to admit so there is a level of skill involved.  it also helps that the BS modelling on all things allied in this game works in his favor.


I'm curious about that. I can hit a coke can about 8 out of 10 open site at 100 yds (standing/kneeling) no brace with my 10/22. I can hit the 1 foot circular target on formal range at 300 about 1/2 the time. Now drop and windage on .22 pretty bad. I'm a bit better with an M-14. Maximum open sight shooting for most is 400 yds. If I remember correctly max range at the nationals is 600 yds open site.

As for the .50 cal. It is IRL a very "flat" round. The M-2 was used in SEA as a sniper weapon with little modification beyond a scope and "tuned" butterfly trigger. 1000yd+ shots not uncommon at all...
« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 11:39:27 AM by humble »

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storch

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« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2007, 01:56:01 PM »
go out measure 1000 yards and try to shoot a deer sized target.  for me it was humbling experience.  I can hit a coke can at 100yds almost every time as well.  I can also kill rats at 100yds with ease.  I killed a swimming duck 100yds away with a single shot pellet gun on a dare.  I'm a fair shot but 1000 yds takes training to hit at, hell 500 yards is a long way too.  as I stated previously I won't shoot at game beyond 300yds, I feel it's beyond my ability to insure a good humane kill at those extreme distances.

Offline Bronk

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« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2007, 02:04:03 PM »
Quick question. Is the range ticker yards or feet?

I have always thought it was in feet.


Can anyone confirm what it actually is?



Bronk
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Offline humble

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« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2007, 02:30:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
go out measure 1000 yards and try to shoot a deer sized target.  for me it was humbling experience.  I can hit a coke can at 100yds almost every time as well.  I can also kill rats at 100yds with ease.  I killed a swimming duck 100yds away with a single shot pellet gun on a dare.  I'm a fair shot but 1000 yds takes training to hit at, hell 500 yards is a long way too.  as I stated previously I won't shoot at game beyond 300yds, I feel it's beyond my ability to insure a good humane kill at those extreme distances.


I dont disagree at all, as I said 400 yds is about the accepted maximum for open site accuracy to a man sized target. Accuracy beyond that with sub MOA ballistics is certainly possible. My comment is more toward the reality that a .50 round is very flat IRL and hitting a target at 1000yds (in AH) isnt that far fetched. It's all timing and judgement....and some luck.

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Offline Major Biggles

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« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2007, 02:38:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
Quick question. Is the range ticker yards or feet?

I have always thought it was in feet.


Can anyone confirm what it actually is?



Bronk


yards ;)

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