The Root Cause of Crime...

[SteveBailey]

if drugs were legalized they'd be cheaper. If this guy could support his habit on a McDonalds salary this girl might be alive today.

You seem to want to legalize all drugs.  Do you want 10 million crack addicts in your country? Have you seen the stats on birth defects in crack users? Have you ever seen a person who has been doing crack for a while... what it does to them?

Many addicted drug users are not reliabel enough to hold a job so they would still turn to crime to get  their money.  In your world, there's millions more of tjhese people.

Also, if it's alright with you, I'd like at least a reasonable chance to have my Big Mac prepared by someone other than the crack junkie/needle sharer/prostitute whos' teeth are falling into the preapred food.

[SteveBailey]

See Rule #4

[bsdaddict]

   Originally posted by stantond

    Afterall, the main reason stated to outlaw drugs was the crimal behavior of drug addicts, which is well documented.



the movie "reefer madness, 1936", yeah that was "well documented".

yeah, propaganda like that was used to feed the public alarm over the "criminal behaviour of addicts", but IMHO the real reasons behind drug prohibition had more to do with racism, fear, greed, corporate protectionism, yellow journalism, and ignorant/corrupt politicians than any crimes actually committed by addicts/users.

[Dago]

See Rule #4

[bsdaddict]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
You seem to want to legalize all drugs.  Do you want 10 million crack addicts in your country? Have you seen the stats on birth defects in crack users? Have you ever seen a person who has been doing crack for a while... what it does to them?

Many addicted drug users are not reliabel enough to hold a job so they would still turn to crime to get  their money.  In your world, there's millions more of tjhese people.

Also, if it's alright with you, I'd like at least a reasonable chance to have my Big Mac prepared by someone other than the crack junkie/needle sharer/prostitute whos' teeth are falling into the preapred food.

technically yes, I do think all drugs should be legalized.  For many reasons.  Primarily, the libertarian in me says "if they ain't hurting anyone it's ain't none of my business.  Once they hurt someone (including stealing their property) throw the effing book at 'em."  

Also, it's not that I think drugs are good, I think the War on Drugs is bad.  The War on Drugs (or, as some put it, The War on the Users of Some Drugs) as a whole is ineffective and does more harm than good.  It diverts funds that could be better utilized elsewhere and it serves as justification for many unconstitutional practices.  Furthermore, the crack and meth epidemics are in part due to the crackdown on other, less harmful drugs.  It's my belief that with other, legal alternatives many would turn away from the most harmful drugs.  Those that continue to use drugs like crack and meth have a serious medical problem that isn't helped by locking them up, and after legalization 1/10th of the funds freed up by ending the WoD would more than suffice to address the medical issues.

Do I think full legalization will happen?  Not really, not right away at least.  We'll probably see a gradual decriminalization/regulation process.  The tax implications of regulating marijuana IMHO makes it an issue that can't be ignored.

[Casca]

See Rules #4, #5

[loser]

Originally posted by lukster
"Restorative Justice" is pervading our liberal courts. While I think the concept is good, in practice it seems to be little more than an excuse for leniency. Leniency will not rehabilitate people like the murderer in this story nor will it serve as a deterrent for those perhaps at a pivotal point in their career as a criminal.

Sorry I stopped reading here, Something good might have been said after this post by lukster.

Lukster I was educated for 4 years at the University of Regina , SK Canada in the field of "BA Human Justice"  

The big time focus was on "restorative justice"

The concept is INDEED sound.

The really bad part is that is takes a LONG time.

And just so you dont think i'm some book edjamacated tard. For 2 years i worked for a government funded youth day program for young offenders who were neither working or going to school. (Schools here wont take you if you have a criminal record with violent offenses. That is right, high schools.)

Of the 400 plus kids that I met during my job with that program one kid straightened out.  2 weeks into the program he punched me in the face (common assault) That should have sent him back to jail. I didnt say a word because i knew he was sorry.  and from his upbringing that is all he knew, solve problems with violence. This kid finished the program and started an inner city youth centre.

That now feeds and provides positive activities for 200 youth daily.

Restorative justice does work.

And all it cost me was one punch to the face.

[lukster]

The problem here loser, as I alluded to, is that leniency is becoming the standard but without any real restoration. Many of these judges think it their responsibility only to give the offender another chance or a light sentence.

[Debonair]

Originally posted by lukster
The problem here loser, as I alluded to, is that leniency is becoming the standard but without any real restoration. Many of these judges think it their responsibility only to give the offender another chance or a light sentence.

well that just proves lukster had a more peaceful upbringing, i was sure i was gonna see

Originally posted by lukster

[Elfie]

Develope the instant test for pot and you will make some serious money

There is a saliva test for drugs now, including pot. Takes less than 20 minutes to view a video on how to administer the test to viewing the results. Only kicker is, even the best saliva test can only detect drugs used in the previous 24 hours, most are less than that though.

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Elfie
There is a saliva test for drugs now, including pot. Takes less than 20 minutes to view a video on how to administer the test to viewing the results. Only kicker is, even the best saliva test can only detect drugs used in the previous 24 hours, most are less than that though.

Well if it's a DUI test, I don't think it matters what happened last thursday...

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by john9001
back when pot was ignored by the cops pot was cheap and non-addictive and people didn't use the crazy chemicals, after the cops cracked down on pot it became expensive and addictive so people started using the crazy chemicals.

Spot on. When the war on drugs started, coke was a hundred bucks a gram. It became harder to smuggle large quantities of pot, it was more profitable to smuggle coke. The market flooded and coke dropped to 25 bucks a gram with less cut. The average joe could now afford the rich man's asprin. They started cooking it, shooting it, you name it.

[Helrazr1]

I just did a search on google, and was led to the DEA website.  It is estimated by the federal government that 27% of all inmates in STATE prisons were there for POSSESSION.  not trafficking, or distribution, but possession.  Maybe if there were another alternative for those guilty of possession, there would have been room for the SOB in the origional post, and he wouldn't have ever been freed to add to his list of crimes.

I don't support drug use, nor do I use myself, but when over 1/4 of the state prison population is there for nothing more than having drugs in their possession, and serious offenders are turned away due to an overpopulated prison, something is seriously wrong, IMO.


Shuckins, my heart goes out to your family, and to your town as a whole, because obviously this is a big problem where you live.

[SteveBailey]

technically yes, I do think all drugs should be legalized

I think this is a mistake. I strongly disagree w/ the "all" part of your statement.
 IMHO:
A ready proliferation of highly addictive drugs would cause an enormous strain on our already messed up medical system, would lead to more overdose deaths, much more juvenile/child drug use, and would raise the level of violent crimes significantly.( PCP, crack, crank, speed,  cocaine... all of these sorts can induce quite violent behavior)

I'm not trying to change your mind, just giving my thoughts.

If you want to talk about legalizing pot or ecstacy... we may be able to find a common ground.

[x0847Marine]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
I think this is a mistake. I strongly disagree w/ the "all" part of your statement.
 IMHO:
A ready proliferation of highly addictive drugs would cause an enormous strain on our already messed up medical system, would lead to more overdose deaths, much more juvenile/child drug use, and would raise the level of violent crimes significantly.( PCP, crack, crank, speed,  cocaine... all of these sorts can induce quite violent behavior)

I'm not trying to change your mind, just giving my thoughts.

If you want to talk about legalizing pot or ecstacy... we may be able to find a common ground.

I used to think like you, check out this video from LEAP, Law Enforcement against prohibition
http://leap.cc/Multimedia/LEAPpromo.php

You assume "millions" more will become addicted, based on what? if coke were legal tomorrow would you be a junky by weeks end?... walk into 7-11 and suddenly lose control "I need to smoke coke!". Probably not, and neither would "millions" of others. It doest work this way with Cigarettes or alcohol which are legal and kill more people than so called "illegal drugs".

We didn't have an illegal drug in the USA until 1914, at this time the .gov freaked out at 1.3% of Americans being addicted to drugs.

56 years later the .gov, once again looking out for you dontchya know, screamed "OMFG 1.3% of Americans are addicted to funny stuff... we must start a war on drugs!!!"

The war on drugs is a complete failure. Imagine if the police were free to investigate car theft as aggressively as murders, and subsequently car theft conviction rival that of murder... car insurance rates would plummet as prisons filled with car thieves. Keep in mind when you put a car thief in prison, the thefts where he operated stop.. arrest a drug user / dealer and business doest stop for a nano second.

edit: Wanted to add that the point of locking people up is to keep them form victimizind people... a murder in prison cant kill you, a rapest cant put his thingy in your wife / daughter / son..

When some pot farmer gets an ave of $60k tax dollars spent on the investigation / prosecution, then catches 65 years in prison, don't you feel safer? I a man who you never met and was as non violent as your average stoner, gets his time on earth ruined for growing a plant nature gave us.

But don't worry, his assets will go to good use.. the .gov helps itself to every last cent mr weed farmer used to have. San Jose PDs yearly budget from the city was $0.00. When the chief of police asked 'how can I run a police department with no cash?' the answer was simple, 'your dept made more than enough money in asset seizure'. You think any of that savings was passed on to tax payers?..lol, some loser politician got to reward one of his loser friends with the extra cash... which is why politicians love the war on drugs too.