ENY bugs

[Krusty]

This is specifically for late ware arenas.

Fw190A-5 and Fw190A-8 need to have their ENY switched. They were swapped and have been for quite some time.

The 190A5 is 25, the 190A8 is 31, and the F8 is 20. There's no way the F8 is more valuable than the A8 (they used to be the same value, if I recall?) because it cannot carry 1/3 the guns, is heavier from all the jabo armor.

The A5 should be 31, the A8 should be 25, and I'm guessing the F8 is supposed to be 25 as well (or both A8/F8 should be 20, I don't recall)


The FM2 is 20. The F4F4 is 20 also. The F4u1 is 25. Where is the logic in that? The F4u1 is more capable than the f4f4 by a large margin, and the FM2 is as well. Perhaps the f4u1 should be the same as the f4u1a (they're almost identical, let's face it), and the F4F4 should have a lower ranking (it should be enabled after the FM2 is shut out, logically they're like the P40B an the P40E).

The Spit5 is 25ENY, the Spit9 is 20. Yet, somehow the Seafire (which flies worse than the spit5 but has the same ammo as the 9) is ENY 15. Theoretically it should be between 20 and 25. Unless there's some other consideration going on because it's CV-capable??

The SBD is an early war plane. The SBD carries a 1k bomb and 2x 100lb wing bombs. It's ranked 30, but the TBM, capable of carrying 6 rockets, a torpedo or 2,000lbs or ord (including a 2k egg) and a late-war plane, is 35 ENY.


Some of these need looking into.

[Mustaine]

personally I think the spit V should have that higher ENY, as it's ammo load is crummy, and doesn't have the same boost as the others.


the seafire has that huge boost, and makes it a very capable plane IMHO, and should rightly have a lower ENY.


i agree with the FM2 and F4F being like the P40's and should have different ENY values.



the 190-a5 is a monster now with the new FM, and a much better "dogfighter" hence the lower ENY, and the A8 at least IMHO has become a worthless pig. the 110 has better cannons for HO'ing (you know thats what most fly those planes for) and it turns better. that A8 just flys so slow, and nasty i see the ENY.

I havent tried the F8 since back, so I dont know how it flies.

as for the TBM, well other than dropping a few bombs, it isn't worth much at all, but the SBD seems to be able to "fight" better... at least according to some here.

[Krusty]

Mustaine, the SpitV flies rings around anything in this game. It's better than a zero. You can (and my squaddies HAVE) land 5+ kills with it's 120 cannon rounds.

Don't be fooled into thinking it's been porked. It's back to what it was before it was an uber UFO flight model.

And, as far as I recall, the Seafire shares the boost of the SpitV. Even if it's got a higher boost, the spit9 has still a higher boost, so it should still be between the 5 and 9 in ENY (logically).

The 190a5 flies well if you fly it light, sure. So does the 190a8. I heard one person comment "No reason to take the A8 unless you load it out with guns" -- but this isn't necessarily true. I've flown the 190s a lot and the A8 is more capable than the A5, even if you only have the 2x20mm gun option. It's got more boost, a faster speed than the A5 except between 5k and 8k, and except above 22k or so. The A-8 is more a killer than the A5. Then if you add the outer MG151/20s you get the stopping power of a hurrican on steroids (and 3x the ammo, to boot!).

After checking Gonzo's comparison website, the A-8 and F-8 are 99.9% identical in all areas, except for climb rate below 1K. It seems there is a slight difference there.

A-8 is a far more formidable foe, and this has always been the case. The only benefit to the A-5 is that it's lighter (no aux tank) and turns slightly better -- with the caveat that even the A-5s best turn rate doesn't even come close to 90% of the other planes in the game (787 feet turn radius).

Do me a favor, and the next time you feel like a 190, take the 190A-8. Take only the basic option with no outboard guns. Don't take more than 75% gas or if you do drain the aux tank before even thinking of engaging anybody. Fly it like you would the A-5. You'll have just as successful a run in the A-8 as the A-5, and you'll be a little faster, to boot.

[Mustaine]

sorry but I have to disagree with the A8 analysis.

Having flown LW almost only for the better part of 4 years (remember I am JB73) and being an FW fan all that time, I remember what the A8 was like, ad the A5 and the F8.

now I may be mistaken, but when was that last data update to DoK's site? after the FM change or before (with the FW's)??


I may not be smart enough or patient enough to "officially" test turn rate data, or climb and acceleration, but I can tell you my thoughts on MA flight, and getting "down and dirty"

I;m sure you know I am not some cherry picking FW fool, flying like my stats depended on it, if I cared about that stuff I'd fly P51's @ 20k and La7's on vulch runs. (PS wanna pad your hit% take a P47 up against bombers... you may die but if done right you can hit 90% of those 8 .50's for a good 2 seconds per bomber)


in my flights of the A8 since back and in fights, I seriously believe the 190-D9 can turn inside the A8 (and I have done it in game, though I can't say if the pilots I have faced are with or without the stall limiter and such)

add in the horrible climb, and the horrible acceleration of the A8 it is clearly an inferior plane to the A5 IMHO.

now like I mentioned some "uber-tester" may come along ad "prove" the A8 can turn 2 yards tighter that the A5 in a sustained turn or something like that, but I seriously doubt it. now yes max level speed *may be higher in the long run, but I would question the actual time to get there, especially without WEP (in that matter with WEP, as the timing of the acceleration is in question here).


those are just my observations though from my past experience in the FW's in game.

[Krusty]

I think Gonzo's info is post-coad-update. I would have to ask him (I'll shoot him an e-mail in a moment and ask). However, my thinking is that the coad change would affect the airflow over the wings and airframe, and since the airframes are identical except for the nose bumps, they should benefit equally from the change.

I bring this up because I've been flying 190As (5s and 8s) with just the 2 MG151/20s lately, because I read about the pure fighters never having outboard guns. I was curious what benefits they'd have. I found that the A8 flies a LOT like the A5. I used to always take at least the outboard MG151/20s, and if I didn't want to turn I'd take the 30mms. Now I'm rethinking that.

One question, though, what was your fuel load when flying the A8? This has been thrown around for so long you probably know it, but at 100% the a8 has 30 more gallons than the a5. At 75% it's about 7/8ths the a5's full load. Many folks take the A8 with a lot of gas and don't realize they get to the fight with a lot more onboard (many hundreds of pounds).

I realize you've flown 190s a lot before, also, and hope I didn't imply otherwise.

As for the F-8, it was always a direct derivitive from the A-8, with different mounts on the wings, and outboard guns removed. It should have identical performances except for climb, as it has 200lbs or armor added (note it will almost never lose oil).

[Mustaine]

mostly I took the A8 up with 75%.

in the past i never flew the A8 without the 30mm's, as that is the reason to fly it

so honestly I have no comparison other than in the past with the big guns, and now with the big guns.


and don't worry, you didn't imply anything

[Krusty]

Aside from this topic, I did some checking offline. Look for a post in the aircraft section on 190 weights. It's rather.... enlightening (for me, anyway).

[Mustaine]

Originally posted by Krusty
Aside from this topic, I did some checking offline. Look for a post in the aircraft section on 190 weights. It's rather.... enlightening (for me, anyway).

going back to this thread:

http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=170543&perpage=50&highlight=weights&pagenumber=6

you seem to be the only one who noticed and commented on what I think may be one of the most important things, the mention of the 109G turning "worse" than the FW190's (A series probably)

[Krusty]

Do you recall if this was before or after the airflow recoding? Because we're all talking about the flopping that seems to have been corrected with the recoding.

The old 190s couldn't turn at all with 109s because of the flop. You'd snap stall if you banked while at 200mph, basically. Now, I think it's much more competitive, but I still don't know for sure.

Looking back now, I'd think that maybe they were talking about a G-6, which was overweight and slower than the G-2. I would think the A-5 would out-turn a G-6 with gondolas, easily.

[Mustaine]

Originally posted by Krusty
Do you recall if this was before or after the airflow recoding? Because we're all talking about the flopping that seems to have been corrected with the recoding.

The old 190s couldn't turn at all with 109s because of the flop. You'd snap stall if you banked while at 200mph, basically. Now, I think it's much more competitive, but I still don't know for sure.

Looking back now, I'd think that maybe they were talking about a G-6, which was overweight and slower than the G-2. I would think the A-5 would out-turn a G-6 with gondolas, easily.

I don't know if this is before or after, as far as the "flop" goes, I still get it alot in the dora, but don;t have enough time in then A to give a valid opinion.


as for a G6 with gondolas, well, possibly, but I was assuming the best turn of a G overall. like you say it may be possible in a light A5 to best a G6 with gondolas, but what about a light G2 or alight G14? I don;t think the A5 woudl have a chance.

now that quote by me in the other thread was "anecdotel" evidence, and we know HTC does not take that into the FM in Aces high, but it still intrigues me as to the basis of that opinion.

[Krusty]

Reading the rest of the thread, I'm sure it's before the recode.