Eny

[Serenity]

Originally posted by Kev367th
ENY 15
Spitfire Mk XVI

Kev, I love you, I really do, but NO NEIN NEVER. Spitfire XVI should be in the ENY=5 group. Everything else other then the Hurricane (But as you said, those are anomolies) I agree with, but the Spitfire XVI is just ridiculous.

[Serenity]

Oh, and sorry Lusche, by the time I had posted I couldnt remember the name, I just remembered it was a black and white icon and the first that comes to mind with black and white is Widewing. My apologies, I hope you can forgive me.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Simaril
But your idea assumes that KPD correlates directly with a plane's quality. And that would be an invalid assumption.

Think about a plane like the FM-2. Lets say, just for the sake of argument, that only 10% of sorties was by newbs -- and the aces who love to dogfight make up the difference. The KPD that results would be HEAVILY skewed by player skill -- and while it would still likely end up with a mediocre number, that number would be MUCH MUCH better than the plane deserved..

So now it gets a lower ENY. It gets filtered out for the high side, and a certain number of aces can't fly it. The KPD drops....do we recalculate?

Or lets look at the argument the other way. Take a great plane flown poorly by newbs. Should it be available to the aces on the high side, when the FM2s of the world are denied?

Come to think of it, look at YOUR numbers!! The "NPE" (newbie pilot effect) clearly has pushed the La-1 and the SPit XVI into almost silly ENY ratings. Can you honestly say, with all the "perk the XVI and La7" threads, that your system is better than HTs?

I dont buy it at all --  since its based on a faulty assumption its conclusions can't be trusted.

Barring anything else to base ENY values on, a planes K/D in the INDIVIDUAL arenas should be a reasonable gauge of how successful (effective) it is.
Like I said a planes use or underuse should have nothing to do with it's ENY value, as ENY it is currently being use to limit planes, it makes sense to base it on a planes success in the arenas, not its use.
Under the current 'system' if the Spit I suddenly jumped way up in popularity it could get a silly ENY value also.

I would hazard a guess that if individual arena stats were available, the top ENY group (ENY 5) in my idea would most likely contain the latest planes available in that arena, which if you think about it makes sense.
As they developed through the war planes got better performance and became more and more effective.

Yes it be recalculated as and when was seen fit.
If you look through the tours the basic position of any aircraft in the K/D ratio doesn't change that much.

Anyone know if individual arena stats are available?

[crockett]

Originally posted by SlapShot
Well as it seems like the majority don't want to change sides

Right ... most would rather piss and moan about ENY.

I guess it's them who are accomodating you.

How do you figure ? ... they still have the choice to fly with the over-populated side ... they just have to do it with a limited plane set. They are accommodating themselves if you really think about it.

Unless of course you feel your little minority are more important than every other player in the game.

Those who choose to change sides to try and balance arenas are truly a minority, but I doubt most feel they are more important than every other player in the game ... they may feel that they contribute more, but I doubt "importance" enters their mind.

Now, with all of that, I do have to agree with you that the ENY settings do need to be looked at more deeply and reset accordingly for the arena and the offered plane set within the arena.

So in the example I posted above from last night..  I could have switched to two sides.. I could go switch to the Nits whom were already out nubering the Rooks in that area of the map and map it even worse.

Or I could have jumped on the Bish and fought at even a worse dis- advantage.  The ENY might work not so bad at peak times, but something needs to be done for sure in the off peak hours.

Personally I don't see why something biased on sections of the map wouldn't work.

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by BaldEagl
As far as rating by performance I agree somewhat but lethality would also have to be part of that equation.  I just don't know how you could do it.  Which perfomance catagory are you going to use?  How do you evaluate T'n'B planes against B'n'Z planes, turning ability against climb rate, etc.?  Maybe the best measure would be K/D for a given aircraft directly from the arena stats but it seems to me most of the perk planes are already at the top of that list.

I find it amusing how this became Kev367's idea.  Look way up at the top of this thread.

I was thinking about this further last night and whoever said it above is right in that player skill has a lot to do with some of these K/D stats although, while it may take some programming, a player skill adustment could be made using pilot stats in conjunction with overall plane stats.  

A simple formula might be overall plane K/D / average pilot K/D = Relative ENY.  This rates the planes top to bottom from which ENY could be applied.  The most accurate time to do this would be at the end of each camp.  The programming difficulty would only come into play if HT doesn't already keep the data on which planes each of us have flown but my guess is they do as some of it is in your expanded stats already.

I also see no reason to keep ENY's in 5 point increments.  Range them possibly from 5 to 30 or whatever numbers you want but let them fall where they will.  You'de have planes at 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, etc.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by BaldEagl
I find it amusing how this became Kev367's idea.  Look way up at the top of this thread.

Didn't read the links, was only putting forward an idea, and yes there is no need to keep the 5 step increments.

[Serenity]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Barring anything else to base ENY values on, a planes K/D in the INDIVIDUAL arenas should be a reasonable gauge of how successful (effective) it is.
Like I said a planes use or underuse should have nothing to do with it's ENY value, as ENY it is currently being use to limit planes, it makes sense to base it on a planes success in the arenas, not its use.
Under the current 'system' if the Spit I suddenly jumped way up in popularity it could get a silly ENY value also.

I would hazard a guess that if individual arena stats were available, the top ENY group (ENY 5) in my idea would most likely contain the latest planes available in that arena, which if you think about it makes sense.
As they developed through the war planes got better performance and became more and more effective.

Yes it be recalculated as and when was seen fit.
If you look through the tours the basic position of any aircraft in the K/D ratio doesn't change that much.

Anyone know if individual arena stats are available?

But planes like the Spixteen lose their K/D because all the n00bs whod rather auger than land fly them. It doesnt mean they are any less effective. There need to be exceptions such as the Spixteen and the La-7.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Serenity
But planes like the Spixteen lose their K/D because all the n00bs whod rather auger than land fly them. It doesnt mean they are any less effective. There need to be exceptions such as the Spixteen and the La-7.

Then we get well an exception needs to be for this plane also, oh and this one, and this one etc etc.
Then we end up back exactly were we started, planes with ENY values that mean nothing at all.

I ditch all the time if I see an incoming NOE mission or HQ mission just to get up and intercept it. Hurts the Tiffys overall K/D, that mean an exception should be made to that also?.

Or with the amount of ditching buffs I see now, they need to be made exceptions also?

You can see where it leads.

After a couple of tours with some tweaking at the end of each one you would end up with IMO a fairly good set of ENY values.

[morfiend]

Wow...I opened a can of worms here:noid


 I guess I should have mentioned it was MWA , so no K4 ect. and ya we weren't totally defenceless just out numbered and out planed.

Really it was supposed to be about a sector ENY,or 4 sectors or whatever.

even though our side had superiour numbers they were nowhere near the area,and the few that defended this base just gave up because of the eny.

 I had hoped for some constructive input but as usual it turned into a P1$$ing contest.
 

BTW guess I shoulda seached {eny,sector}.. but thx for the links...........

[skernsk]

Heh, morfiend MWA and EWA are porked because of ENY and your post got me pretty upset thinking about the last squad nite we had there.  Luckily we found a plane that we could sort of fight with but it got me to wondering why I can't fly any Mid War plane besides a perk plane.

It is a sore point with me and has been since the start.  As I posted previously HTC has made many changes in the past that, at first glance, seemed crazy.  In the end they were great changes and helped grow the game.  

In this case I still haven't found the silver lining ..... and I am taking the time to let HTC know it.  Flame me if you want, but it really don't change the fact that ENY needs some warranty work.

[morfiend]

yup Skernsk ur right.......


 Finally someone is sticking to the subject:o

[Serenity]

Then base ENY on what it SHOULD be based on, planes ability. K/D has nothing to do with it. You wanna see me bring the F4U1C's K/D down? I have some extra points, I will spend every singel one on augering a C-hog, just to make it cheaper. The point being K/D has NOTHING to do with what a plane can do if people can simply auger.

[GooseAW]

I can't imagine there is any way to base ENY on area or base. If your country has numbers but are outnumbered in a given area, that's your problem to be quite frank. Rally the troops, counter attack, whatever. Your countrymen could come to your aide at any moment and even out or swing the numbers in your favor.

I agree that the ENY values are way out of line and that single point increments would seem to be best so that you don't suddenly lose access to 6 planes with a 1 ENY point increase, say from 9 ENY to 10 ENY. These Ideas have great merit and I hope HTC will take action on them.

My 2 cents. But then again I'm a twit who won't jump sides when hubsy thinks I should.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Serenity
Then base ENY on what it SHOULD be based on, planes ability. K/D has nothing to do with it. You wanna see me bring the F4U1C's K/D down? I have some extra points, I will spend every singel one on augering a C-hog, just to make it cheaper. The point being K/D has NOTHING to do with what a plane can do if people can simply auger.

Yes you could do that, but looking at previous tours it would show up as an anomoly.
All the perk planes (apart from the Spit 14) always enjoy a better than 2.2/2.3 K/D.

[hubsonfire]

Yeah, why should the other paying customers have the same opportunities on a level playing field if a horde of vets doesn't want them to?

That's what amazes me most about you guys and your bull**** country loyalty nonsense. Is it really that important for you to have multiple, pronounced advantages in a cartoon airplane game? Would it really be the end of the world if you didn't?

ENY should be punitive. A horde of spit8s or a horde of spit 16s, what's the difference, really? Make ENY start at 5, and increase by whole numbers at a faster rate than it increments by tenths of a point at present.