Nice Lesson in Computer Repair

[TEShaw]

Brought my computer home from the shop for the fourth time (that's 8 trips down and up the 55 stairs, and I actually have a muscle strain in my neck and shoulder, and it hurts to swallow); and, I just saw it working fine in the shop, but now, it wouldn't start here at home (new power supply and install, labor [oh, plus new RAM, new motherboard, new case]).

In madness, desperation, and some extravagent hope of winning the lottery, I brought in my heavy-duty extenson cord from an outside-the-house circuit, plugged it in, and now the big computer works fine.

Getting suspiscious?

Get this: my second computer is on the same dedicated in-door circuit I had built just for these two computers, and it's been working fine through this whole ordeal...who'dda thunk?

THERE"S SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE DEDICATED, SINGLE-PURPOSE, ELECTRIC CIRCUIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Where a 250 watt-powered secondary-computer worked fine; but, the 500 watt computer kept ****ing failing)

The guys in the shop were cagey, and they never would admit that they could get my system to fail.

4 trips: RAM, motherboard, power supply, case, reconfigure hard-drive array. Just off the top of my head that was something like $700...nickled and dimed along the way, always thinking the last co-incidental failure would now have been fixed....

Those ignorant, f*****g, a******s never did a decent test, they just replaced whatever part most sounded like it would solve the temporary problem.

And all those old parts that got thrown away? ...they were probably still good, after all.


I admit that I'd also decided that this is not the right time to build a new expensive system...DX10, video cards, windows Vista....

But now, who's eye should I stab out?

[Irwink!]

I'm relatively sure that your tale of woe is accurate in terms of what you experienced. However, the dedicated circuit part falls apart when you say that the other computer worked fine and continues to work on the same circuit as the problem computer. I spent a fair amount of my working life as an industrial/commercial electrician. Were/are both computers plugged into the same outlet on the dedicated circuit? Is there a power strip or UPS involved? Did you try both sides of the outlet? What is the condition of the power cord that actually connects directly to the pc? Did you try a different power cord?

What you describe says that something other than the dedicated circuit is involved, provided you described the scenario accurately insofar as you know.

[TEShaw]

Irwink, I appreiate your interest and hope you can help....

Were/are both computers plugged into the same outlet on the dedicated circuit?


Yes.

Is there a power strip or UPS involved?

Yes.

 Did you try both sides of the outlet?

Yes.

What is the condition of the power cord that actually connects directly to the pc? Did you try a different power cord?

Yes, tried different power cord.


Dude, I'm totally saying that the dedicated power circuit went bad. I can't think of anything else. (Tell me where I'm wrong!)

Here's this beautiful computer totally running off my washing machine circuit and it won't power up off this dedicated in-door circuit, even though the dumb secondary computer runs fine on the 'dedicated' circuit.

Dude, I've wired houses too.

Tell me where I'm wrong.

[Krusty]

Let's assume it's not the wires. What if it's the PSU? The PSU draws too much, can't get enough juice maybe? You say the difference is one is 250W the other is much higher. Well this means it also requires more juice to keep producing the power for your computer, right?

I'd say that, if computer B works, and computer A doesn't, then it's not the power. If it was the power, both computer A and B would cease to function. Since at least one works, I would say the problem is between the socket and the computer, rather than behind the wall.


This is just my logical thinking on the matter. I'm not an electrician or anything.

EDIT: Or, say the socket only provides N amps, which is enough to run the 250W but not the 450W. I wouldn't say it's a bad circuit, it just might not have the juice needed?

[TEShaw]

Plus, electrian dude...

The machine boots up on the out-door washing-machine circuit from a 50 foot extension cord...

But it won't boot for lack of power (I guess) , from this code-certified circuit, which the electricians and the county inspector approved.

I'm betting the circuit breaker has to be bad.

What you got?

[TEShaw]

Plus, this is totally electrical; and, therefore undeniable.

My computer runs on the 50' extension cord from the outside outlet with the washing machine.

It will not power up from the dedicated in-door circuit which the code-certified electricians put in 8 years ago.

Look, I'm trying to be nice...

Therefore...

[Irwink!]

There are a few possibilities. Lack of power in the dedicated circuit is not one of them. One thing about decent extension cords - most often the blades of the male power cord that you are plugging into the female end of the decent extension cord fit more snugly than they do in an outlet be the outlet in the wall, the power strip or whatever. That's not always the case but it often is. Outlets wear out from years of wear due to plugging in and out. Cheap grade outlets wear out or fail more quickly. If you've truly tried more than one power cord for the pc you can probably rule out a problem with that. Try plugging the pc back into the outlet you normally use and wiggle the plug while you try to power up the pc. Try wiggling every point of connection. If you usually plug into the power strip, forget the strip for a moment and plug directly into the wall outlet. See if there's a difference in the way the blades of the working pc's power cord fit into the outlet.

The bottom line is that if one computer has continued to work without fail this whole time there is nothing wrong with the circuit. Just for grins, what size is the circuit breaker (or, cod forbid, the fuse) that supplies it? How far away is the outlet from the circuit breaker or fuse? You can get voltage drop over a very long distance but that's almost never a factor in a residential setting. I'm talking hundreds of feet between circuit breaker and outlet. Anyway, the other pc would be having problems too. As far as how much power your pc needs - look at the specs on the psu name tag. Chances are your circuit breaker or fuse is at least 15 amps. Don't be confused by how many amps the psu supplies to the computer - that amperage is delivered at low voltages and is meaningless more or less in terms of what the power supply needs from the circuit that supplies it. No computer that you or I are ever likely to own will ever get even close to taxing that capacity by itself.

Good luck. I'll be interested to hear what you find out.

[Shamus]

Leave the puter plugged into the washing machine plug and tell her to hump the clothes down the 55 steps to the creek and beat them on rocks.

shamus

[llama]

Originally posted by TEShaw

And all those old parts that got thrown away? ...they were probably still good, after all.

Heh heh heh. You think those parts got THROWN AWAY?

Those parts are now probably installed into those tech's personal machines at home. Or they store up enough parts to create a whole new machine from scratch.

There is so much incompetence and evil in this industy, I seriously don't know what some of my clients would do if I got out of the business. And I've had some clients since 1989.

-Llama

[TEShaw]

No further tests are required.

Things are as I reported.

[TEShaw]

For whatever you blah lah type...

there is one thing for certain:

My computer fails to start on the one circuit...

But it starts fine on the other circuit.

Draw your own conclusions.

[Gator01]

I see two possibilities that have not been mentioned as of yet.

1) Noise
   As you know AC power is delivered at a specific frequency, much like a single tone broadcast over the radio.  Interference can be added to the circuit by any component, fuses, outlets, running the circuit too close to the AC unit, almost anything.  Higher end power supplies are normally more sensitive to noise than cheaper or older models.
   
2) Power Factor  
   Power factor is the phase relationship between the frequencies of the current in an AC circuit to that of the voltage.  Normal these they are in perfect synchronization; this is referred to as a power factor of 1.  When these two characteristic are not in phase it can cause serious problems.  Newer power supplies include a power correction feature, meaning that they do not alter the power factor of the circuit they are on.  This is NOT to say they’ll correct the power factor of the circuit they are on.  Your older lower wattage supply could be significantly affecting the circuit’s power factor, which your newer one is more sensitive to.

If it’s a problem with the power factor, a simply test of disconnecting the lower wattage supply would result in your problem computer functioning perfectly... (In which case it’s the lower wattage supply that needs replaced, the price of which will be offset by a moderate reduction in your electric bill)

If it's noise in the line your going to need to call an electrician, as can not think of any easy way to conclusively identify that as a the culprit, or remove it if it is…

Hope that helps, Good luck.

[TEShaw]

Gator, I totally appreciate your response. (Keep it coming.)


But, here's the deal:

 my computer will start up from some other circuit

it will not start from the local  circuit that the electricians and I designed.


It has to be totally obvious  that there is something wrong with this dedicated circuit, as the computer will boot up from any dumb outlet in the house, from this 50 foot extension cord.

Have I made myself clear?

Plus, I'm not trying to be smart.

This computer is running great on this 50' extension cord by the washing machine.

I just guess I need a new circuit breaker for this dedicated circuit.

Please tell me where I'm wrong.

I mean, one circuit works, and the other don't.

I didn't invent electricity.

[Gator01]

The working computers powers supply, is not the only suspect when it comes to an altered power factor.  Computer monitors, printers, external drives or USB hubs, or pretty much anything that isn’t an incandescent lamp could alter a circuit’s power factor.  However I would suspect a power supply as being the most likely suspect.  Most manufactured equipment is designed not to adversely effect power factor.  However in the PC world, individual computer components (graphics card, motherboard, hard drives) can alter the power factor of the individual power supply rails they reside on, with the assumption that the supply its self is going to clean up their mess…  bla bla bla…

Disconnect, not power down, everything from your dedicated circuit that isn’t a lamp and try your problem computer.  This will test for power factor issues.

Or it could be noise in the line from the circuit breaker...

[TEShaw]

Plus so what I'm saying is that the comp repair guys totally f..d me, because they didn' want to squealing do any homework; they were just too dumb and greedy.

So, my whole point is, plug your system into the washing-machine before you dump $700 on fake dumb dumb liar skank bogus repairs.

Had I tested this circuit, I'd be $700 richer.

I'm an $700 idiot.

my warm regards, TEShaw