museum of the confederacy

[john9001]

Originally posted by MoeRon
you guys talk as if the Mason-Dixon line still exists.....does it?

the mason-dixon line is the southern border of pennsylvania, it was surveyed long before the civil war.

[lasersailor184]

By the surveyors named Mason and Dixon.

[Chilli]

Originally posted by JB88
two statues reside on monument avenue in richmond virginia.

one is general lee.  one of the things that i admired most about the reconstruction was that the southerners were allowed to honor their heros.  it's a sign of a culture which can accept its past and embrace its highest truths.

the other is the newest statue on the avenue, that of arthur ashe, the gay tennis player who died of aids.

So, those who believe that Arthur Ashe, Richmond native, African American pioneer, and not gay is their hero are not southerners ?

He was obviously born too late to be a Civil War hero.  Was that maybe your point.   I agree, to tear down these monuments would be a travisty.  

Adding new faces, may put some frowns on the old monuments but they should survive it.

If you travel south of Broad Street, you will also find a monument to Bojangles.  Yes, he too was a pioneer and revered in his day.  His  contributions are still benefiting those in the entertainment industry today.

[MoeRon]

the mason-dixon line is the southern border of pennsylvania, it was surveyed long before the civil war.

i meant that as a cultural boundry, not the actual physical line, sorry.

[lazs2]

so red bottom... what did he do off court that was more important than being top tennis player.. that was so important that no one else did anything like it... so different and important that he deserved a statue?

lazs

[john9001]

a statue of Frederic Douglass would have made more sense.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by lazs2
so red bottom... what did he do off court that was more important than being top tennis player.. that was so important that no one else did anything like it... so different and important that he deserved a statue?

lazs

Before I did any looking, I thought back to what I remembered about Ashe.  It was something about his dignaty and class that carried over to the game.  I'm not a Tennis fan at all, but I knew about him as a kid.

Went here and checked.  He like any number of African American Athletes I remember from my kid days, was more then just an athlete.  I tend to link him to the same type of African American athlete as Bill Russel, Jim Brown and the like.  

Ashe's involvement outside the court certainly was important too.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/tennis/features/1997/arthurashe/biography.html

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by MoeRon
i meant that as a cultural boundry, not the actual physical line, sorry.

I would say that the cultural boundry drifted to the southern maryland border.  Back then, it would have been questionable and up for debate if maryland was in the south.  Now I wouldn't even consider it.

[lazs2]

Ok.. still missing the point.   There were no other men who did as much?  if so... where are their statues..

also.. I did not know he was from africa.

lazs

[Shuffler]

Many slaves were up north... not just in the south.  As for slavery many were sold into slavery by their own people sometimes their own families in Africa. So slavery was not just something white folks dabbled in.

Personally the most racist person I know is a black man. Even my friends of color realize what a idiot that individual is.

In my book a man should be judged on his merit and actions, no matter what color. I also judge one's family by that persons actions, after all they are the only contact I have with that family and you have to assume their actions had to do with hoew they were raised.

[Masherbrum]

He wasn't from Africa.  He was born in Richmond.  

He WAS a great Ambassador of Tennis.   He was NOT gay either JB88.

[Chilli]

I don't think Dixon, Ca. (sounds like Dixie, .... not guite) counts you as a southerner, Southwestern, maybe...............   Laz, bud.  

There is a reason that it is called Monument Ave.  There are more than just Ashe and Lee there.  I would ask the question maybe of other honorees, but I realize that the point is they are considered "heroic" for there deeds.  

If nothing else, Arthur Ashe faced the "bullet" just as courageously as any other on the avenue.  The fact that he didn't inspire other men toting banners, shouting war cries to drive their bloodied bodies onto bayonettes, doesn't mean that he wasn't inspirational.  

Frederick Douglass, was not a Richmond native, and would gleam in even more contraversy.  You might as well put the Lincoln Memorial on Monument Avenue for that matter.  

It was done to honor a man whose life story, most would say should be the period to the American statement on equality.  Instead, it is a question mark?  I don't get it:(  

Tennis player, Pearl Harbor AA gunner, Tuskeegee Airman, Congressman / Congresswoman, Governor what does it matter if he were the next President of the United States?   The question remains, what kind of a man was he that I should erect a likeness in his honor.  So, lets say on this end of the avenue we have a man who fought for government where his rights are protected, and on the other end ...... let's see, oh yeah, equal rights

At the end of the day when HIV and then AIDS had its way with the man, he showed courage and put a recognizable face on an epidemic that was politically being ignored.  Wasn't the Civil War really about southerners' Rights that were politically being ignored?

so red bottom... what did he do off court that was more important than being top tennis player.. that was so important that no one else did anything like it... so different and important that he deserved a statue?

[JB88]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
He wasn't from Africa.  He was born in Richmond.  

He WAS a great Ambassador of Tennis.   He was NOT gay either JB88.

i know.  

i should have read what i posted before posting it.
my bad.  hope you will excuse the poor attempt at whatever it was.   sorry.

[Slash27]

Originally posted by wklink
Ummm.

We destroyed your armies, we burned your cities, we sunk your fleet, we completely changed your way of life and your economy.    We won the war.  All of your greatest generals were either killed or had to swear allegance to the United States.  Your government ceased to exist after 1864.

Of course in the end we declared victory and pulled out, letting the original perpetrators of slavery bring it back under a different name (ie Jim Crow).  

In that end we lost that aspect of the war, but I don't think most Southerners are too proud of Segregation, the Klan and seperate water fountains and bathrooms.  As far as I am concerned, as a Northerner, it is the North's shame that we let it happen and the South's shame that they even thought of it.

"We"? wtf? Were you there leading the cavalry? How many ships were in "my" fleet?  I didnt know Washington state was a big player in the Civil War.

Some of you "northerners" come across as nothing but cheap punks. Cowards on keyboards.

[storch]

hold on thar deppity dawg, the texas metropolitan areas are so full of yankees you guys are starting to beat south florida in the number of people who can't drive, talk funny and have a terrible attitude.  last time i was in houston I was amazed at the changes in courtesy and driving habits.  now say it ain't so.