An AHII question for history buffs

[badhorse]

I have a couple of questions for those of you that know WWII better than I.

1) I saw that one of the available skins for the Hurricane I had swastikas on it.  In the EW arena at least, didn't check the others.  I can see it being available in the special arenas.  Any idea why?

2)  Was the armor on a T-34 as strong as it is modeled in AH?  I have  seen T-34's take well over 20 hits of AP and not even be tracked.  I know if you can hit the sweet spot you can take one out with one shot, but if you don't, is it realistic for them to be so hard to destroy?

thanks

[aerosaber]

The T34 was built with very heavy sloped armor to withstand the horrific artillery of the german army. I think she weighed in at 31 tons, which is why it dont climb hills well.

Yes it was a tough tank. Later had an improved 85MM gun also.

[zorstorer]

Originally posted by badhorse
I have a couple of questions for those of you that know WWII better than I.

1) I saw that one of the available skins for the Hurricane I had swastikas on it.  In the EW arena at least, didn't check the others.  I can see it being available in the special arenas.  Any idea why?

2)  Was the armor on a T-34 as strong as it is modeled in AH?  I have  seen T-34's take well over 20 hits of AP and not even be tracked.  I know if you can hit the sweet spot you can take one out with one shot, but if you don't, is it realistic for them to be so hard to destroy?

thanks

1. Thats a Finnish Hurri Mk1....look up the "Winter war" for more info on it.

     Check out this link for more info on the marking...CLICK

2.  Hit them in the side or the rear...there are sweet spots on the front...but just hit him on the side or rear for now.

[E25280]

Originally posted by badhorse
I have a couple of questions for those of you that know WWII better than I.

1) I saw that one of the available skins for the Hurricane I had swastikas on it.  In the EW arena at least, didn't check the others.  I can see it being available in the special arenas.  Any idea why?

2)  Was the armor on a T-34 as strong as it is modeled in AH?  I have  seen T-34's take well over 20 hits of AP and not even be tracked.  I know if you can hit the sweet spot you can take one out with one shot, but if you don't, is it realistic for them to be so hard to destroy?

thanks

The swastika skin on the Hurri I is of Finnish origin, not German.  The Finns had purchased several different planes from the west and used them against the Russians during both the Winter War and the Continuation War.

The T-34 model we have is one of the earlier variants.  The slope on the armor helps make them quite tough.  They should be harder to destroy than the Panzer IV as a result.  But I must admit, I have never experienced one in AH that took that many AP hits (unless you mean at long range or with an M-8 or something) without going down.  Are you sure they were actual hits (with large hit sprite), and not deflected shots?  The sloped armor make deflections more likely.

[hubsonfire]

I got into a T-34 vs T-34 shoot out a while back. We were parked about 100yds apart, nose to nose. I think boredom eventually killed the other guy- not really sure, as I had fallen asleep.

[Hornet33]

It's simple geometry where the T34 armor comes into play. Take a 1" piece of armor and tilt it 45 degrees. This actually increases the amount of armor the shot has to pass through by roughly 50% without the added weight of additional armor. So a 1" plate of armor tilted at 45 degrees is now the equivelant of 1.5" of armor. 1.5" is now 3".   That is why the T34 is so hard to kill, plus the angle of the armor will also cause many rounds to deflect instead of punching through when using AP rounds which in WWII were for the most part, solid shot rounds.

Now all that being said, a very simple weapon the Germans had would tear right through a T34 and that is the Panzerfaust. That weapon was equiped with a HEAT warhead that would cut right through up to 200mm of armor. HEAT rounds were not used in tank guns however until after WWII (at least I haven't been able to find a referance that says otherwise).

[E25280]

Originally posted by Hornet33
HEAT rounds were not used in tank guns however until after WWII (at least I haven't been able to find a referance that says otherwise).

Several of the tanks that sported low velocity howitzers carried HEAT rounds in WWII.  The HEAT round was well suited for these guns since they use chemical rather than kenetic energy to do their damage.  I believe the Pzkw IV(C) the low velocity 75mm gun was the first tank to use them -- not certain exactly when, though.  My memory says not until after France had fallen, but early onset alzheimers and all . . . The 105mm assault version of the Sherman I believe was also equipped with HEAT.  Certainly not as common as standard solid shot used in AT guns, but HEAT was available to both Axis and Allied armor.  (In fact, I think the 75mm gun we have on our LVT(2) was HEAT capable . . . )

They were also used by towed artillery for emergency AT work.  I recently read an article in WW2 Magazine about an airborne arty unit equipped with 75mm pack howitzers that used HEAT rounds to knock out several Pzkw IVs during the battle of Bastogne.  The interesting thing there was that the local commanders thought the howitzers would be of no use against armor.  IIRC, they got credit for only 2 of the 14 kills recorded in their area since there were also a couple of M10s involved in the same battle.  Most of the German tanks had been hit so many times it wasn't possible to determine exactly which round had killed the tanks and which were overkill - so they just assumed the M-10s had done the bulk of the damage.  The arty commander let it go figuring even the 2 kills credited to his unit were enough to prove they could do what he said they could.

[Krusty]

Whenever I take a T-34 it's always the first thing to pop. Whenever I'm in a panzer I always pop T-34s in 1 hit. Mind you most of my experience is from "Stalins Fourth" scenario, as I don't GV very much (GV in MA = spawn camp tard --- well, for anything that's a tank. M3s/troops have a limited use)

[LYNX]

I read on these boards about a year ago that the Finns purchased 5 Hurries.  They came over to GB for some brief training and flew the brand new hurries home.  1 crashed on landing.  This was just month before the out brake of WWII.  As you know the Finns were defeated but their armed forces were utilised to fight the USSR.  Finns no likey Rusky then or now.

T34 armour has been axplained above.  Also method of killing.

[Panzzer]

Originally posted by LYNX
I read on these boards about a year ago that the Finns purchased 5 Hurries.  They came over to GB for some brief training and flew the brand new hurries home.  1 crashed on landing.  This was just month before the out brake of WWII.  As you know the Finns were defeated but their armed forces were utilised to fight the USSR.  Finns no likey Rusky then or now.

Finland bought the Hurricanes in February of 1940, 3 months after Soviet Union had attacked Finland. Also, defeated is a bit strong word - Finland didn't surrender and wasn't occupied, but there was an interim peace (after the Winter War, which lasted a year and 3 months) where Finland lost some land areas. Here's a short summary of Finland in WWII.

The story: Fetching the Hurricanes.