• HARM #3 - This Sunday •

[Kten]

Nothing like flying a realistic mission with a great bunch of players.

[Flatbar]

Originally posted by blkmgc
Biggest difference here is you were dweebing alone....we were actually having fun.

Glad we could help anyway. We get points for all this fun? Ya dont say!

Had to take a quiet break before our squad night started.

We launched a bit of our own fun with 11 sets of B24's with 10 or so pony escorts. Then we launched a small FW attack sorty while the bombers RTB'd. Next we launched another small 13+ plane P40e fighter sweep just for kicks as our numbers decreased into the evening. We do squad nights 3x/week.

But, yeah, I was just dweebing around alone then not having fun at all.

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by Trukk
There was another fighter squad who was very effective as well.  There was so much going on I can't remember their name.  I think it started with a "3" but am not sure.  I'd sure like to find out though as they were very professional!

348th Fighter Group.  And we were happy to join the mission.  Had a lot of fun and will try to roll with you guys next week, with more of our squaddies.

Couple of recommendations:  

--Maybe try to identify the short-handed country so ENY isn't a factor, and maybe it will prevent 262's and 163's from upping.  Dang darbar was so big from 8 sectors away, that should give them enough time to up

--Also, I know it is difficult since you don't know how many or who is going to show, but create a template for bomber formations and escort (close, high, roving) and assign folks to the different positions during those last few minutes before the roll.  Diagrams here  You could also template the salvo, delay, and TAS for drop in the post on the HARM message board, instead of calling it in the air.

--Maybe try separate bomber and fighter VOX channels and do bomber to escort coordination on Range.

--All enemy fighters should be identified from their position in relation to the bomber formation.  I.e., 12 o'clock means in front of the bombers, 6 o'clock behind the bombers, and so on.  Or as an alternate method, a bearing line from the lead bomber--i.e. "enemy contact (or "bogey" (as an unidentified aircraft) bearing 225 degrees (or just 225) at 8 miles".  Bottom line is the point of reference is the formation, and not the fighters as they can be scattered around the formation.  Use this until the general melee ensues

--Assign interception duties to the fighters by group--i.e. "Close (or High, Roving, etc.) cover intercept the 4 contacts (or "bandits" (as a known enemy aircraft) at 9 o'clock".  This preserves the other fighters to pick up the next group of bad guys while the first group is tangled up.  A little economy of force, so to speak.

--Use a bomber route of approach that is relatively perpendicular to the "front" so that the penetration into enemy territory is perpendicular and the climbout is safe from early interception.

We had a blast and if this thing keeps evolving, should make for some seriously fun missions in the MA!



TABLE LEAD

[Trukk]

The AAR for #3 has been updated (PDF).

Stoney, I'll reply to your post later today (gotta to to work now).

[blkmgc]

Good points Stoney.  Were still getting used to the mechanics of the game as far as the ENY is concerned. I still dont get whay there is radar at each field (with a given range) and if you avoid it, your still on radar (darbar). Kinda defeats the purpose doesnt it? We looked at each side and the numbers, but on that particular map it was dificult to try and pick a field that was far enough back to get to altitude, yet not to far back to make us fly all the way across the map to do a strat run. I'd really like for you to get on TS with us, your suggestions are very welcome sir. You guys did a great job .

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by blkmgc
I'd really like for you to get on TS with us,

What's the advantage of TS over the in-game VOX system?

When I first started playing and would get discouraged flying fighters, I'd hop in bombers for a change of pace.  I used to fly 1.5-2 hour missions in B-17's, climbing up to around 26K.  My rule of thumb was always take off at least approximately 3 sectors (roughly 75 miles) from the "front" to ensure I had enough alt to be clear of anyone who would chance upon me.  If the map didn't allow me a straight line to fly that type of route, I'd actually take off in a climbing turn, and stay in the sector over the field until I was at altitude.

For planning, Hammer has a good chart listed on his website here.  Go to the "Level Bombing" link.  Scroll down a little and there's a chart with time to climb and ground distance covered at different fuel loads for all the bombers.  For the small maps, 50% in B-17's is about all you'd need, especially since you guys aren't flying full throttle the whole time.  

Again, enjoyed this immensely.  I'm glad you guys put this together--lots of fun.

[Tango]

Originally posted by Stoney74
What's the advantage of TS over the in-game VOX system?

We use both, but TS is much clearer than the in game system.

[blkmgc]

Originally posted by Stoney74
What's the advantage of TS over the in-game VOX system?
 

Mainly for clear discussion. As these events grow, we definately want to add to them that which is attractive to each group. TS is a good meeting place to discuss all of these things. And you gents definately have stuff to add to any organized op you participate in.

[Trukk]

1. Maybe try to identify the short-handed country so ENY isn't a factor, and maybe it will prevent 262's and 163's from upping. Dang darbar was so big from 8 sectors away, that should give them enough time to up.

2. Also, I know it is difficult since you don't know how many or who is going to show, but create a template for bomber formations and escort (close, high, roving) and assign folks to the different positions during those last few minutes before the roll. Diagrams here You could also template the salvo, delay, and TAS for drop in the post on the HARM message board, instead of calling it in the air.

3. Maybe try separate bomber and fighter VOX channels and do bomber to escort coordination on Range.

4. All enemy fighters should be identified from their position in relation to the bomber formation. I.e., 12 o'clock means in front of the bombers, 6 o'clock behind the bombers, and so on. Or as an alternate method, a bearing line from the lead bomber--i.e. "enemy contact (or "bogey" (as an unidentified aircraft) bearing 225 degrees (or just 225) at 8 miles". Bottom line is the point of reference is the formation, and not the fighters as they can be scattered around the formation. Use this until the general melee ensues

5. Assign interception duties to the fighters by group--i.e. "Close (or High, Roving, etc.) cover intercept the 4 contacts (or "bandits" (as a known enemy aircraft) at 9 o'clock". This preserves the other fighters to pick up the next group of bad guys while the first group is tangled up. A little economy of force, so to speak.

6. Use a bomber route of approach that is relatively perpendicular to the "front" so that the penetration into enemy territory is perpendicular and the climbout is safe from early interception.

1.  We try to fly for the "underdogs" but it can be very difficult.  Last Sunday for example the Blue arena was full which left Orange.  In Orange the Knights had the most players, followed closely by the Rooks, but the Bishops were way down.  However with the layout of the map, there were no strategic targets remotely close that we could bomb as Bishops.  Knights were too far away from Rook strat targets but close to the Bishops, but that would be like kicking a guy when he's down.  That left flying as Rooks and bombing Knights, and the distances worked out in that case.

2.  You're right in that is awfully hard to do not knowing how many are going to show up, where you're going to fly and what the target is going to be.  [See this post for more info.

3.  I don't mind trying that.  The only problem I see is that you can't de-tune F12 (that I know of).  So even if you have a separate fighter channel you can still get stepped on by F12 transmissions.  Also, if guys get spread out and you need to do a group transmission, guys may be out of range of F12, and it's a pain to re-tune the V channel.  Overall I thought the VOX was pretty good, there were times it got swamped a bit, but that is realistic in the heat of battle.

4.  Good points, we just need to get the bomber formation cleaned up so we don't have guys strung out for two miles.

5.  Actually, I'm hoping that the dedicated escort squadrons will coordinate that with each other.

6.  In picking the route and target, what we are shooting for is about a 10-20% loss rate for the bombers.  This may sound sort of strange but any less than that and the mission is boring, and much more than that and the bombers start feeling like target practice drones.  We are still very much in the learning process of being able to read the map and judge how to get this sweet spot.  Bascially we want to run an organized mission and get in a good scrap, but not get slaughtered.

[Trukk]

Originally posted by Stoney74
What's the advantage of TS over the in-game VOX system?

Way more fidelity and control over your comms (and much better sound quality too).  You can hot-key switching channels and setup an emergency channel that broadcasts to everyone.  Sort of like a real radio.  You can also configure it to not broadcast on TS when you are using F12 or the V channel.