Someone GETS IT!

[wrag]

If you read the part starting AFTER

"by disarming the very people on whose authority police operate."

someone finally understands!

the 2nd Amendment.........

WE....  YOU and ME..............      it's about US

That is what it's REALLY about, WHO is SUPPOSED to be incharge!

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/article3585.html

[Hap]

Originally posted by wrag
That is what it's REALLY about, WHO is SUPPOSED to be incharge!

Sorry to break it to you, but it ain't so.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

In other words, the citizenry consents to delegate or elect folk.  

From that act of consent, power stems.

The power of those elected/appointed exists to secure "unalineable Right," and 3 are listed.  The others aren't.

As to who is in charge, it's the folks we place there by our "consent."

One of the bald faced lies that has become all but gospel in the last 25 years is "we the people are in charge."  We aren't and never have been per se.  We have a direct address via the ballot of course.

I for one am VERY glad the mob isn't in control and that they were never desired to be in control by Adams, Jefferson, Hamilton, Jay, Madison, and Co.

All the best,

hap

p.s. there was a guy in Germany in the 30's who very successfully tapped into the mob's errors and weaknesses.  Read the 1st third of Shiller's "Rise and Fall."  If you're honest with yourself, you'll find yourself reacting in ways you did not anticipate.  Evil and lies are powerfully seductive, and none is 100% immune.

[Ack-Ack]

Which is why we have a Republic form of democracy.


ack-ack

[oboe]

Originally posted by Hap

p.s. there was a guy in Germany in the 30's who very successfully tapped into the mob's errors and weaknesses.  Read the 1st third of Shiller's "Rise and Fall."  If you're honest with yourself, you'll find yourself reacting in ways you did not anticipate.  Evil and lies are powerfully seductive, and none is 100% immune.

My God Hap, I've been quietly thinking and comparing the past 4 years or so to Germany of the '30s and 40's.    Interesting parallels can be made.

[x0847Marine]

Originally posted by oboe
My God Hap, I've been quietly thinking and comparing the past 4 years or so to Germany of the '30s and 40's.    Interesting parallels can be made.

Vote libertarian / Independent.

[Yeager]

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

NEWS RELEASE
Second Amendment Foundation
12500 NE Tenth Place * Bellevue, WA 98005
(425) 454-7012 * FAX (425) 451-3959 * http://www.saf.org
D.C. APPEALS COURT RULING HOLDS SECOND AMENDMENT PROTECTS 'INDIVIDUAL
RIGHT'
For Immediate Release: 3/9/2007
BELLEVUE, WA - A ruling Friday by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the
District of Columbia that strikes down the District's 1976 handgun ban
and holds that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep
and bear arms is "a landmark for liberty, and an affirmation that
everything the gun rights community has been saying for years is
correct," the Second Amendment Foundation said today.
The 2-1 ruling came in the case of Parker v. District of Columbia.
Senior Judge Laurence H. Silberman wrote the opinion, with Judge Thomas
B. Griffith concurring. Judge Karen LeCraft Henderson dissented. The
ruling holds that the District's long-standing ban on carrying a pistol
in the home for personal protection is unconstitutional. SAF filed an
amicus brief in the case.
In his ruling, Judge Silberman wrote, "In sum, the phrase 'the right of
the people,' when read intratextually and in light of Supreme Court
precedent, leads us to conclude that the right in question is
individual."
"This is a huge victory for firearm civil rights," said SAF founder Alan
M. Gottlieb. "It shreds the so-called 'collective right theory' of gun
control proponents, and squarely puts the Second Amendment where it has
always belonged, as a protection of the individual citizen's right to
have a firearm for personal defense."
Judge Silberman's ruling notes that the Second Amendment
"acknowledges...a right that pre-existed the Constitution like 'the
freedom of speech'."
"Because the right to arms existed prior to the formation of the new
government," Judge Silberman wrote, "the Second Amendment only
guarantees that the right 'shall not be infringed'."
Silberman's ruling also observed, "The right of self-preservation...was
understood as the right to defend oneself against attacks by lawless
individuals, or, if absolutely necessary, to resist and throw off a
tyrannical government."
"Judge Silberman's ruling," Gottlieb said, "reverses 31 years of
unconstitutional infringement on the rights of District of Columbia
residents, not only to keep and bear arms, but to be safe and secure in
their own homes. This is a ruling that should make all citizens proud
that we live in a nation where the rights of individual citizens trump
political correctness."
The ruling may be viewed at:

http://pacer.cadc.uscourts.gov/docs/common/opinions/200703/04-7041a.pdf

[dmf]

Ok I don't understand, whats the big deal about people owning and having guns? Personally I don't have one, but if you guys want them then so be it have them you should be able to have them, as long as your not using them to kill people or commit crimes. But then if they take away the guns from you guys that have them for legal reasons then I guess the criminals will be the only ones left with guns huh?

I'd much rather hear a hunter in the winter shooting at deer than a man behind me saying "stick em up"

[Toad]

Or even hunter in the winter shooting at the man behind me saying "stick em up.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by dmf
Ok I don't understand, whats the big deal about people owning and having guns? Personally I don't have one, but if you guys want them then so be it have them you should be able to have them, as long as your not using them to kill people or commit crimes. But then if they take away the guns from you guys that have them for legal reasons then I guess the criminals will be the only ones left with guns huh?

I'd much rather hear a hunter in the winter shooting at deer than a man behind me saying "stick em up"

one could say the same for:

Ok I don't understand, whats the big deal free speech? Personally I don't protest, ....

The fact of the matter is the 2nd amendment says nothing about hunting or recreational use.

If DC passed a law prohibiting free speech for political reasons...IE no peacfull protests at all and only allowed free speech for other things wouldn't that be a gross violation of the constitutional right?

[bsdaddict]

Originally posted by x0847Marine
Vote libertarian / Independent.

or vote for Ron Paul!

America is sick,
Dr. Ron Paul
is the cure.

Ron Paul '08!

[Russian]

1. Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, Detroit & Chicago cops need guns.

2. Washington DC's low murder rate of 69 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Indianapolis' high murder rate of 9 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control.

3. Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are "just statistics."

4. The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994 are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates, which have been declining since 1991.

5. We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid.

6. The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals.

7. An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.

8. A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

9. When confronted by violent criminals, you should "put up no defense - give them what they want, or run" (Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields, Guns Don't Die - People Do, 1981, p. 125).

10. The New England Journal of Medicine is filled with expert advice about guns; just like Guns & Ammo has some excellent treatises on heart surgery.

11. One should consult an automotive engineer for safer seat belts, a civil engineer for a better bridge, a surgeon for internal medicine, a computer programmer for hard drive problems, and Sarah Brady for firearms expertise.

12. The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1787, refers to the National Guard, which was created 130 years later, in 1917.

13. The National Guard, federally funded, with bases on federal land, using federally-owned weapons, vehicles, buildings and uniforms, punishing trespassers under federal law, is a "state" militia.

14. These phrases: "right of the people peaceably to assemble," "right of the people to be secure in their homes," "enumerations herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people," and "The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people" all refer to individuals, but "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" refers to the state.

15. "The Constitution is strong and will never change." But we should ban and seize all guns thereby violating the 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendments to that Constitution.

16. Rifles and handguns aren't necessary to national defense! Of course, the army has hundreds of thousands of them.

17. Private citizens shouldn't have handguns, because they aren't "military weapons'', but private citizens shouldn't have "assault rifles'', because they are military weapons.

18. In spite of waiting periods, background checks, fingerprinting, government forms, etc., guns today are too readily available, which is responsible for recent school shootings. In the 1940's, 1950's and 1960's, anyone could buy guns at hardware stores, army surplus stores, gas stations, variety stores, Sears mail order, no waiting, no background check, no fingerprints, no government forms and there were no school shootings.

19. The NRA's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign about kids handling guns is propaganda, but the anti-gun lobby's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign is responsible social activity.

20. Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly, and so simple to use that they make murder easy.

21. A handgun, with up to 4 controls, is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use, as opposed to an automobile that only has 20.

22. Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is "an accident waiting to happen" and gun makers' advertisements aimed at women are "preying on their fears."

23. Ordinary people in the presence of guns turn into slaughtering butchers but revert to normal when the weapon is removed.

24. Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows.

25. A majority of the population supports gun control, just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves.

26. Any self-loading small arm can legitimately be considered to be a "weapon of mass destruction" or an "assault weapon."

27. Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted.

28. The right of Internet pornographers to exist cannot be questioned because it is constitutionally protected by the Bill of Rights, but the use of handguns for self defense is not really protected by the Bill of Rights.

29. Free speech entitles one to own newspapers, transmitters, computers, and typewriters, but self- defense only justifies bare hands.

30. The ACLU is good because it uncompromisingly defends certain parts of the Constitution, and the NRA is bad, because it defends other parts of the Constitution.

31. Charlton Heston, a movie actor as president of the NRA is a cheap lunatic who should be ignored, but Michael Douglas, a movie actor as a representative of Handgun Control, Inc. is an ambassador for peace who is entitled to an audience at the UN arms control summit.

32. Police operate with backup within groups, which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do "civilians" who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition.

33. We should ban "Saturday Night Specials" and other inexpensive guns because it's not fair that poor people have access to guns too.

34. Police officers have some special Jedi-like mastery over handguns that private citizens can never hope to obtain.

35. Private citizens don't need a gun for self- protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection.

36. Citizens don't need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs, who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops, need a gun.

37. "Assault weapons" have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people. The police need assault weapons. You do not.

38. When Microsoft pressures its distributors to give Microsoft preferential promotion, that's bad; but when the Federal government pressures cities to buy guns only from Smith & Wesson, that's good.

39. Trigger locks do not interfere with the ability to use a gun for defensive purposes, which is why you see police officers with one on their duty weapon.
40. Handgun Control, Inc., says they want to "keep guns out of the wrong hands." Guess what? You have the wrong hands.

[Halo]

Russian 40, Gun Control Zealots 0.  Of course, that's assuming they understand sarcasm.

[Hap]

I guess the Barney Fife crowd got back from the VFW.

hap

[Kieran]

Zero-to-Godwin in 3 posts. That might be a record.

Hap,
Finish the quote:

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Read that as "We let them mind the store, but if they get out of hand, we come back to the shop and fire them."

If you're trying to say we aren't in charge, you need to read closer. I guess we could have a semantic debate over the nuances of how our government works, but the overarching result is the same: power is decentralized so it remains in the hands of the people. That doesn't suggest "mob rule", but it certainly doesn't state that we are not in charge. The bottom line is our government is designed to be changeable, just not on a whim.

Hey, I lean more towards gun control than not, given how things are. That said, I don't know how one gets around the 2nd amendment without another amendment.

[oboe]

Hap, the Barney Fife quip went over my head.  Pity, because it sounds dang funny.    I just don't quite get what you're tyring to say?

Kieran - we may have the right to abolish our government - but honestly, in this day and age, do you really think its possible?    The Civil War proved that disaffected groups of people can't even peel off the union and strike out on their own.

I think any groups of people attempting this would be tried and convicted of treason.