Author Topic: Battle of Britain (Read 1529 times)

Serenity · « **Reply #15 on:** March 10, 2007, 01:14:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MiloMorai
Yes wrong. British bombers were bombing Germany and the Channel ports during BoB.

Source of data? (So I can look at this myself, im actually quite curious about the Boston III)

I know the french originially received several, but I do not think they officially entered RAF service until after the BoB. Of course, that depends on when you consider the BoB having ended. If you follow the text-books, (Spring of 1939 if I remember correctly) then the Boston wasnt in service. If you follow when the Germans COMPLETELY stopped flying over england, well, thats 1944 I beleive, so really, are you going by your definition? Or a textbook? (Im not saying your wrong, textbooks HAVE been quite wrong, and I have disagreed with them). Again, I will find my listing of when the Boston III officially entered RAF service.

Ball · « **Reply #16 on:** March 10, 2007, 01:40:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Serenity
Source of data? (So I can look at this myself, im actually quite curious about the Boston III)

I know the french originially received several, but I do not think they officially entered RAF service until after the BoB. Of course, that depends on when you consider the BoB having ended. If you follow the text-books, (Spring of 1939 if I remember correctly) then the Boston wasnt in service. If you follow when the Germans COMPLETELY stopped flying over england, well, thats 1944 I beleive, so really, are you going by your definition? Or a textbook? (Im not saying your wrong, textbooks HAVE been quite wrong, and I have disagreed with them). Again, I will find my listing of when the Boston III officially entered RAF service.

Bombing operations during the Battle of Britain: -

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/diary_bob.html

Bombing Campaign Diary (great info and photos): -

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/diary1939.html

RAF Bomber Command were doing ops from the very first day war was declared.

On the Boston: -

Quote

Douglas Boston
Entering service with Bomber Command in July 1941, the Boston was well liked by its crews which flew it in the light day bomber role.

The first Boston IIIs were delivered from America in summer 1941, the first squadron to receive them being No 88 based at Swanton Morley in Norfolk. It was some time (8 months) before their operational debut - an anti-shipping raid on 12 February 1942.

The aircraft replaced ageing Blenheim IVs in No 2 Group of Bomber Command and continued to be used in daylight raids on targets over occupied countries. Many attacks were made at low-level to avoid detection by German radar sites and, during the summer of 1942, a number of daring attacks were carried out; power stations, factories and railway yards being amongst the most common targets.

In June 1943, No 2 Group transferred to the newly-formed Second Tactical Air Force in preparation for the invasion of Europe where they served until April 1945 and were replaced by Mosquitos.

Denniss · « **Reply #17 on:** March 10, 2007, 02:55:09 PM »

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher4/a20_3.html

The first ex-french A-20/DB-7 arrived in Britain in August 1940

Debonair · « **Reply #18 on:** March 10, 2007, 03:55:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Serenity
Not according to my data. The Boston IIIs arrived several weeks after BoB. JUST after BoB, but in time to be some of the first Brit bombers to fight back. I could be wrong though. When I get back to my books Ill look it up.

Al i know is i read a book by a guy that was stuck flying a Hurricane Mk.I as part of a Turbinlite Boston in winter 1940-1941. I just assumed they had them a while before the Bostons were modified to such an advanced state of development;)

:t

Angus · « **Reply #19 on:** March 11, 2007, 07:10:57 PM »

The night Blitz is basically defined as later than the BoB itself, - BoB being from the channel skirmishes after Dunquerque untill the LW gave up daylight bombings, - some define it to a narrower dayframe as well.
BoB daylight ops from the British side go almost just to Spits and Hurricanes, but there were some Squadrons of Gladiators and I think Defiants showed up a time or two.
At night, Blenheims mostly. (600 sqn at Manston was in the nightfighting business)
From the Axis side, 109's were the common fighter with some 110's, then the mainstray of the bombers were He-111's, then the flying Pencil (Dornier), then the rarer but excellent Ju-88, and then Stukas, which were mostly active in the beginning.
Then once the Eyties showed up, but had a bad day, so.....
110's would do some low level bombings (Hit & run) with quite some success as well.
On the Britishg offensive side, there were Welliongtons, Blenheims, HP Hampdens and some more. Actually, Göbbels had his garden bombed by RAF in the times of BoB.

macleod01 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 11, 2007, 07:35:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Angus
Actually, Göbbels had his garden bombed by RAF in the times of BoB.

lol, were they aiming for Berlin?

Bodhi · « **Reply #21 on:** March 11, 2007, 08:44:30 PM »

Do not forget the Whirlwind and Boston (A-20)

Angus · « **Reply #22 on:** March 12, 2007, 04:14:10 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by macleod01
lol, were they aiming for Berlin?

LOL, yes actually. The wind must have been good or something, for they hit enough to change Göring's name to Meier, and get him to bomb London.

Serenity · « **Reply #23 on:** March 13, 2007, 06:55:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ball
Bombing operations during the Battle of Britain: -

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/diary_bob.html

Bombing Campaign Diary (great info and photos): -

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/diary1939.html

RAF Bomber Command were doing ops from the very first day war was declared.

On the Boston: -

Yeah, 1941 was the date my books have. (This is about to sound REALLY stupid, but I have tried to force World War Two from my mind, seing as I am in AH withdrawl. When did BoB OFFICIALLY end?)

Angus · « **Reply #24 on:** March 13, 2007, 08:04:22 PM »

in 1940 basically, most historians set the date in October.
Can check tomorrow if you like

VooWho · « **Reply #25 on:** March 13, 2007, 08:37:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Yes, the Westland Whirlwind was in service in one or two squadrons (I can't recall off hand) and saw some combat.

The Westland Whirlwind is one fighter I want to see for the sole purpose of EW perk fighter. Only 2 squadrons flew the Whirlwind because all the engines, and other needed supplies were going to Hurricans and Spitfires. The reason I would perk it for EW arena is because it was faster than a spit at low alt and highly manoeuvrable for a two engine fighter 1938 design and carried 4 20mm cannons in the nose. What other EW fighter has 4 20mm cannons? None.

Specs: Apply to the Whirlwind Mk1 A.
Powerplant: two 571kW (765hp) Rolls-Royce Peregrine 12-cylinder Vee-type engines
Performance: max speed 579km/h (360mph);
range 1287km (800 miles);
service ceiling 9150m (30,000ft)
Dimensions: wingspan 13.72m (45ft);
lenght 9.83m (32ft 3in);
height 3.20m (10ft 6in)
Weight: 5166kg (11,388Ib) loaded
Armament: four 20mm (0.79in) cannon;
external bomb load of 454kg (1000Ib)

Ball · « **Reply #26 on:** March 14, 2007, 02:59:30 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Serenity
Yeah, 1941 was the date my books have. (This is about to sound REALLY stupid, but I have tried to force World War Two from my mind, seing as I am in AH withdrawl. When did BoB OFFICIALLY end?)

Quote

These pages catalogue the official reports of the most important event in Royal Air Force history, the Battle fought over Britain between the 10th July and 31st October 1940

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/index.html

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/calendar.html

Angus · « **Reply #27 on:** March 14, 2007, 03:52:19 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by VooWho
The Westland Whirlwind is one fighter I want to see for the sole purpose of EW perk fighter. Only 2 squadrons flew the Whirlwind because all the engines, and other needed supplies were going to Hurricans and Spitfires. The reason I would perk it for EW arena is because it was faster than a spit at low alt and highly manoeuvrable for a two engine fighter 1938 design and carried 4 20mm cannons in the nose. What other EW fighter has 4 20mm cannons? None.

Specs: Apply to the Whirlwind Mk1 A.
Powerplant: two 571kW (765hp) Rolls-Royce Peregrine 12-cylinder Vee-type engines
Performance: max speed 579km/h (360mph);
range 1287km (800 miles);
service ceiling 9150m (30,000ft)
Dimensions: wingspan 13.72m (45ft);
lenght 9.83m (32ft 3in);
height 3.20m (10ft 6in)
Weight: 5166kg (11,388Ib) loaded
Armament: four 20mm (0.79in) cannon;
external bomb load of 454kg (1000Ib)

The Whirlwind did not have a Merlin, and the airframe didn't support one either. And the engines never got rid of their teething problems.
The cannons had 60 rpg if my memory serves me, and by the time it was showing in it's biggest number's. Hurry II was there and Spit V around the corner. So perk? nope.

MiloMorai · « **Reply #28 on:** March 14, 2007, 04:18:39 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Serenity
Yeah, 1941 was the date my books have. (This is about to sound REALLY stupid, but I have tried to force World War Two from my mind, seing as I am in AH withdrawl. When did BoB OFFICIALLY end?)

Depends from which side you are looking at it from.

For the Germans, it was the spring of 1941 when they tranferred a/c east for Barbarossa. For the Brits, it was when the Germans stopped their daylight attacks and switched to night terror attacks.

Angus · « **Reply #29 on:** March 14, 2007, 07:29:56 AM »

I think the last daylight raids were as late as Oct or Nov, but then they were few, fast, had long interval between them, and usually ended bad. The RAF had recovered and knew the ropes.
So, it was followed by the night "Blitz" which the British do not define as the BoB.
Bear in mind though, that many from the German side do not define the BoB as a special event at all, - including Galland.