Collisions

[hubsonfire]

Originally posted by BaldEagl
OK, I've explained this as well as I can understand it above but, I still have a couple of questions.

Question 2:  Lets say you're flying in combat against another plane and and you're on his six firing.  You hit.  You see sprites, he hears hits and takes damage.  If all of the above is true, why dont you sometimes see sprites while he doesn't hear any hits and thus takes no damage... Never mind, I figured that one out on my own while typing it.  I see sprites, transmit the data and he goes down but still hears the final hits after he's already in the tower.  If thats the case why don't they program it to make sure you hear all of the hits before towering out though?

In theory, you should hear those hits. Something about people complaining about not hearing the round that killed them, resulted in having to hear the round(s) that killed you, after you're dead. If you're really laggy, you'll have the pleasant experience of being killed again when you reup.

[E25280]

Originally posted by WMLute
One thing I have seen is I would light up my opponent, and litterally SEE their tail end fall off.  I would fly off, look back and they have their tail end and are still flying.

Hmmm....  

I assumed my FE sent "blew nme tail off" info to the HTC server, which then sent it to my opponents FE, and their FE sent back "no you didn't, just an elevator" to the HTC server, which then sent "t'was just a flesh wound" back to my FE or some such thing.

I'm just postulating though.  I could be wrong here.

My experience has always been just the opposite . . . For example, I will light a guy up as he crosses my path, and it looks as if it didn't do anything.  Then suddenly (or should I say "finally") after about a quarter second, his tail falls off.  It took that quarter second for my PC to transmit to his that I hit him, his PC to say, "ok, my tail is now gone" and transmit that fact back to me, and then for my PC to display that received information visually.

I have never witnessed a plane 'regrow parts' as you describe, only the delay in losing them.

[Ghosth]

Its "possible" that when you shot, the packet that tells the other guy "hey your tail is shot off" got lost someplace in transit.

In that case, since he never received the information, he didn't lose anything.

From what I've seen in some 6 years of flying AH thats almost always a case of packet loss someplace. Then again sometimes the packet arrives late, and about the time your going at him again he goes BANG and blows up.

Causing me to swear as I wasted precious ammo on an already dead plane.

On a positive note, I caught a show on tv where they were testing a new laser transmision method from space.  They said when it was working right you could download the entire library of congress in seconds. Hundreds of times faster than anything wired or fiberoptic. Bad news was that of course in  bad weather, clouds data could be lost, scrambled, or no connection available.

[Connery]

I will post the same reply to this thread as I always have done.

Definition

an accident resulting from violent impact of a moving object; "three passengers were killed in the collision"; "the collision of the two ships resulted in a serious oil spill"

If a collision occurs BOTH PARTIES should take EQUAL Damage.

That way there can be no whining, cos we all know it takes TWO to tango.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by 5tu4rt
I will post the same reply to this thread as I always have done.

Definition

an accident resulting from violent impact of a moving object; "three passengers were killed in the collision"; "the collision of the two ships resulted in a serious oil spill"

If a collision occurs BOTH PARTIES should take EQUAL Damage.

That way there can be no whining, cos we all know it takes TWO to tango.

And we all know you did not understand how & why the things work the way they do...

It does NOT take TWO. Like several people explained several times:

You can avoid the collsion on your FE, while on my FE we collide. Your really want to go down even though you were able to dodge my ram on your computer????


EDIT: Yes I know, it`s futile... this whole thread is stuffed with explanations, vids and screenshots.. and still kids refuse to read & think about it, close their eyes, stomp their feet and yell "But I don`t want it that way!!!"

[Connery]

I am not a kid by any means and I knew someone would post that kind of reply, I'm glad you did.

The fact that there is latency at 1 persons Front End and not the others is an argument in iteself why the whole collision thing should be ditched.

Next time you post a reply try not to lower youself to personal attacks, it just takes weight from your argument.

Secondly: Last time i looked it did take 2 "bodies" to collide. Otherwise theres no collision. Now I'm just being pedantic. Hope it satisfies your need to flame me more.


Thanks

[Lusche]

Originally posted by 5tu4rt
I am not a kid by any means and I knew you or someone similar would post this, I'm glad you did.

The fact that there is latency at 1 persons Front End and not the others is an argument in iteself why the whole collision thing should be ditched.
 

Misconception. Everybody has latency. Always. It`s simply the time a packet of data needs to travel fom A to B.

And perhaps you want to take the time to answer my question from above:

"You can avoid the collsion on your FE, while on my FE we collide. Your really want to go down even though you were able to dodge my ram on your computer????"

[Oleg]

Most probably he want to fly right through enemy plane just because other pilot turn away and dont collided. Will never happen, fortunately.

[Bronk]

*Reposted because some people probably skipped past.

5tu4rt this is the best I can due to visualize total lag times.

Tangle's external from his front end the moment of impact.





Same basic angle external, tangle's view from my front end moment of impact.




How would you feel taking damage looking at your film and seeing tangles front end view, hmmmmmm?


I know I'd be pretty POed.

 This also works nicely for the "none should take damage" people.

Yea I should be able to put the nose of my ac through another.

In AH only takes 1 to collide.


Bronk

Edit: Everyone has a lag time. Electronic signals take time to travel a set  distance.  That's what lag is. Total lag is between you htc and your opponent/s.

[Coshy]

I've been paying particular attention to these collision threads, and until now, I didnt clearly understand them. Now I get it. It makes sense, thanks to Bronk for the pics, they are what cleared everything up.

In my own words:

If my computer sees a collision, I die (or suffer damage).

If my opponents computere sees a collision, he dies (or takes damage).

If both computers see a collision both parties take damage (or die).

[WMLute]

Originally posted by Coshy
I've been paying particular attention to these collision threads, and until now, I didnt clearly understand them. Now I get it. It makes sense, thanks to Bronk for the pics, they are what cleared everything up.

In my own words:

If my computer sees a collision, I die (or suffer damage).

If my opponents computere sees a collision, he dies (or takes damage).

If both computers see a collision both parties take damage (or die).

Exactly.  What I think confuses some is when you don't see a collisions, and the opponent does, and vs. versa.

The whole "both should take damage if one sees it" people show me that they don't understand how colllisions work in AH.  If HTC did that (shudder) it would be utter chaos.

A pilot on a sattellite connection would fly by you 2K out and you will suddenly explode from the collision "they" saw.

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by Bronk
*Reposted because some people probably skipped past.
........
 

Bronk, that post is definitely sticky material. Maybe even included with the next game update.

Every new collision thread should be immediately locked with a link to this post. (Along with a picture of Betsy)

[Connery]

Bronk I do understand totally how it works. Thanks thought for the pictures.

My point is in flight if there was an air to air collision there would be 2 parties involved.

In game this obviously cannot be simulated due many variables including connection speed etc. Therefore why bother using a collision model in the first place ??

I seem to recall part of the whole collision thing when it was first introduced was to try to reduce the amount of HO'ing or at least that was how it was perceived by some players. In actual fact I'm not sure there has been any reduction in HO'ing.

With regards to the collision model I am totally fine with it, I understand its principle perfectly and how it is modelled. I am just trying to see things out of the box with regards to this particular question.

Thanks for all the pictures and input and clearly it will help people understand.

Finally Lusche you need to make your arguments a little less personal, and with regards to me going down if I don't see a RAM on my front end buy you hit me on your Front End. I can't say this any simpler, by definition a collision involves 2 bodies 2 parties whatever you want to call it, if that cannot be simulated then don't try to simulate it.

On a last note. Bronk or some senior guy/poster would it be possible to test the collision model under LAN conditions? I'm just curious about how it would perform under LAN settings rather than over the net.

Just a thought

[jaxxo]

"The whole "both should take damage if one sees it" people show me that they don't understand how colllisions work in AH. If HTC did that (shudder) it would be utter chaos."

I think the biggest problem is the collision model itself...not that people cant understand it. The fact that you defenders of it "get it" is meaningless...its garbage. When i flew on sattelite connection I won about 90 percent of all my collisions without taking any damage. This pretty much gave me alot of freedom in my ACM"S  knowing that i would rarely lose a collision.

[jaxxo]

"by definition a collision involves 2 bodies 2 parties whatever you want to call it, if that cannot be simulated then don't try to simulate it."


Amen brother!!!!!!!!