P-47

[Spikes]

OK, I didn't have as much help in the aircraft board...so ill post it here.

I have been flying the P-47 a lot...I go with full loadout.. 75% fuel  if I have to fight before getting to my target...I drop load...Can I have some tips about:

1.)fighting in it
2.)best model for turnfighting...BnZ  etc.
3.) some good evasion moves in it Ex. spitfire is ib on me [what do I do?]

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by spikes

1.)fighting in it
2.)best model for turnfighting...BnZ  etc.
3.) some good evasion moves in it Ex. spitfire is ib on me [what do I do?]

Blukitty, Nomde, Yucca--some of those other guys have forgotten more than I know, but I do fly it almost exclusively and this is what I do:

Setup:  Unless I'm on an attack run, I take the 267 RPG option for the 8 caliber .50's.  This saves you about 400 pounds of weight.  I rarely run out of ammo, even on 4-5 kill sorties.  If you're only flying 1 sector before getting in the fight, keep it at 50% internal fuel and carry drop tanks.  In the N model, I usually roll with 50% internal and a 75gal centerline DT.  That's good for around 30 mins + of flight time.  In the D-25 and D-40, more often than not I'll take 100% internal.  In the D-11, I'm max gas at 100% internal and the 75 gallon DT.  I plan on going into the fight at at least 15K or so, so I need the extra fuel to get to altitude.

Fighting in it:  Boom and Zoom to the extreme.  The plane is one of the worst turners in the game--only the 190 series and P-51 turn worse than the jug for the most part.  The D11 is the most dainty, but that's a qualified dainty, as it weighs the least.  It also accelerates faster than the other D's and has a higher top speed since it doesn't have pylons (less drag).  It turns better as well, again since it weighs less, but still is not a turning aircraft.  If you have a head of steam, all of them zoom climb like crazy, but it is so heavy that you really can't work it very well in the vertical.

Evasion:  Against a Spit that's trying to chase me down, I run away if he's say 800 meters or more.  Nothing in the game can match the dive speeds you can achieve if you have the altitude.  If you're slow on the deck, you're a sitting duck.  If they're right on your six, in a shooting position, get creative!  You can't out turn them, you can't outclimb them, and you can't accelerate away.  Enjoy the fact that you can take some punishment and absorb some hits while you maniacally try to force an overshoot.  It scissors fairly well, but only until you run out of smash.  Once you're slow, you can't yank and bank too hard or it will want to snap roll on you.  If you have rudder pedals, use a lot of uncoordinated maneuvers until you're slow, then keep the nose up by using lots of rudder to prevent the snap rolls/stalls.  

I personally think how you set up your engagements is more important in the Jug than any other fighter in the planeset, as you have to be smart.  If you're transitioning from an LA or Spit 16, prepare to be surprised as the Jug cannot get you out of a sticky situation like the "hotrod" planes can.  I usually prefer a fairly sizeable altitude advantage over an enemy in order for me to keep a positive energy advantage during the fight.

Good luck

[Keeler101]

Heres a film of one of my solo flights may help you some,
Theres a good la engaugment at the end ..notice only turn and fight if you have too then watch for trees:aok

http://www.speedyshare.com/446217436.html

Stoney is right on,Also Shooting in jug is a lil harder the guns are so far apart your going fast and to stay alive you have to make quick shots and book, because you cant saddle up and ride

[bozon]

Models, very sort sum up:

D11 - lightest, handles the best, birdcage canopy, lower fuel load then the other Ds, fastest of the Ds (by very small margin), worst acceleration, worst climber, not much good for ground work. This is the best option if you want to go wild with it and my personal favorite.

D25 - good views, climb/accelerate better than D11 thanks to different prop, wing hardpoints.

D40 - same as D25, better wep, a few more ord options, dive flaps. This is the best model for ground work.

N - super fuel load, super roll rate, totally crazy WEP, weights only 15 pounds less than an ocean liner, major convergence issues due to extended wings. By far the fastest with WEP, slowest without it. The climb without wep is so slow that the D40 is actually better at carrying ord to the target. The N has better chance to make it out alive though.

Fighting:

Manage your fuel! in no other plane this is as imporatant as with the jug. You have the fuel load of 3 109s and some spare. Use DT and burn aux tank before dogfighting. Reduce RPM and throttle when cruising or loitering. You can make it back with very little fuel from great distance if you reduce engine settings. Try to extend the last minutes when you are light. The difference IS significant.

Do not turn fight - that does mean do not knife fight! Just don't try to pull on the stick go circles, you have to be better than that. Use yo-yos and scissors, especially rolling scissors. Surprise the other guy, your greatest weapon is his disrespect. Yes YOU have to do it, the plane will not do it for you. It is very stable at low speeds and dumps speed very fast which is good for creating over shoots, but then becomes a beached whale. If you dump your speed - make it count! Use the flaps when slow.

Use out of plane maneuvers - use all 3 dimentions. The jug can mix roll and turn better than most. Most pilots you'll come up against will only know how to roll their lift vector toward you and then pull. Not both at once.

The zoom and dive is not spectacular in spite of all the myths. Any La7 or spit 16 or 109 will zoom right up your oscar, so be careful when attempting to rope. That is my #1 reason for getting killed by an enemy I see.

Ammo load:
I take the 425 option and make sure I don't come back with any. I go trigger happy and hose everything until the counters reach 1000. Then I'm at the low ammo load and I start to aim. Bullets are on the house here.

Most important:
DO NOT RUN FROM A FIGHT!
Do not be afraid to fight anyone. Even that spit coming at you is only as good as its pilot. It might be a little harder with the jug because usually you do not have a sure-fire "good for all" strategy. It is not "pull on the stick" or "HO everything" or "zoom by at mach 1", like some other planes. YOU have to come up with the winning manuver and you CAN win any fight.

DO NOT BE AFRAID TO FIGHT!
that's the only way to learn.

[Widewing]

I posted the following to the CT forum. I simply cut and pasted it here for reference:

Some guys were debating the merits of the P-47s on another forum. I was not surprised that the entire discussion revolved around sea level performance. What most players don't fully understand is that the MAs are an aberration of real WWII combat.

P-47s were designed for high altitude combat. Above 30,000 feet, they were as good or better than any other type to see service. Up that high they were in their element and extremely formidable.

Later models, such as the P-47M and P-47N were without peer, with the exception of a handful of Ta 152H fighters, which didn't show any advantage until above 40,000 feet.

For example, at 40,000 feet, the P-47N can attain 455 mph.

At 30,000 feet and above, the P-47s are superb. The P-47N is faster at 40k than the Bf 109K-4 is at its best altitude, which is just 22k. It's important to remember that at high altitude, maneuverability is almost totally dependent upon reserve horsepower. Up there, your indicated airspeed is the one thing you must watch carefully. For example, at 32,000 feet, the Fw 190A-8 can barely do 210 mph IAS. That's not very fast and the 190A series were not good performers up that high. However, it is vital to understand that when turning at just 2g, the 190A-8 will stall at 170 mph IAS.

Think about that; max speed and stall speed are separated by just 40 mph IAS. There's little margin for error when flying the 190A-8 up high. In contrast, the P-47D can attain 260 mph IAS at 32k, giving it a huge advantage in maneuverability as it has the power to turn at 4g and not lose altitude or risk a stall and subsequent spin. You should also note that the P-47Ds climb much faster than the 190s at 25k and above. Indeed, the P-47D-40 climbs as fast as the 109K-4 at 25k, and better at 30k.

I encourage anyone who intends to fly Combat Tour should start practicing high alt combat now. Load the TA map for offline play. Fly from one of the two 30k bases (launch on the NE runway, as the others spawn as air starts at various locations). Climb out and attack the drones. You will find this very challenging to accomplish. Thus, you will experience that high alt combat is very different from furballing down low.

Below is actual measured performance data for the P-47s, defining both low and high altitude performance.

All planes were tested with 25% fuel, zero burn. Each armed with 8 guns, but the standard ammo load of 267 rounds per gun (as actually used for most WWII missions), not the max load. This is what I fly with 90% of the time. I'm hoping that HTC uses the standard load and avoids the extra weight. I do not believe more than that will be required in Combat Tour.

Acceleration, 150 mph to 200 mph at 100 feet ASL. Measured in seconds.

P-47D-11: 11.09
P-47D-25: 10.83
P-47D-40: 10.12
P-47N: 10.44

Acceleration, 150 mph to 300 mph at 100 feet ASL. Measured in seconds.
Drag is a bigger factor in this test.

P-47D-11: 54.84
P-47D-25: 55.27
P-47D-40: 51.66
P-47N: 45.68

Acceleration, 200 mph IAS (280 TAS) to 250 mph IAS (342 TAS) at 20,000 feet ASL. Measured in seconds.

P-47D-11: 40.12
P-47D-25: 39.25
P-47D-40: 37.09
P-47N: 30.73

Max speed at sea level, MIL power.

P-47D-11: 335 mph
P-47D-25: 332 mph
P-47D-40: 333 mph
P-47N: 329 mph

Max speed at sea level, Combat Power (WEP).

P-47D-11: 345 mph
P-47D-25: 343 mph
P-47D-40: 344 mph
P-47N: 367 mph

Max speed at 10,000 feet., Combat Power (WEP).

P-47D-11: 377 mph
P-47D-25: 375 mph
P-47D-40: 376 mph
P-47N: 400 mph

Max speed at 25,000 feet., Combat Power (WEP).

P-47D-11: 431 mph
P-47D-25: 429 mph
P-47D-40: 432 mph
P-47N: 457 mph

Max speed at 30,000 feet., Combat Power (WEP).

P-47D-11: 436 mph
P-47D-25: 434 mph
P-47D-40: 438 mph
P-47N: 476 mph

Time to climb to 10,000 feet, beginning at 150 mph, measured in minutes:seconds.hundredths of seconds.

P-47D-11: 3:07.02
P-47D-25: 2:57.40
P-47D-40: 2:44.10
P-47N: 2:50.06


My regards,

Widewing

[Krusty]

Quite the informative list, WW!

Is there any doubt why I love the -N?

I would disagree with Stoney on one point and agree with bozon on another.

Stoney says to BNZ to the extreme. Not always so. This plane turns fairly well at speed. I wouldn't recommend getting down to 100mph in it, but you can seriously cut into somebody's turn before they get away and hose them with 8x 50cals. If they pull away go high and come back down (yo-yo) or any number of other moves. It can mix it up very well. And if you want to get it slow, you can force overshoots. Just beware the other cons, that you aren't forcing to overshoot. If you get the one you might have just dropped your trousers for the others.

And to agree with Bozon: Don't be afraid to fight!

[Spikes]

Originally posted by Stoney74
Blukitty, Nomde, Yucca--some of those other guys have forgotten more than I know, but I do fly it almost exclusively and this is what I do:

Setup:  Unless I'm on an attack run, I take the 267 RPG option for the 8 caliber .50's.  This saves you about 400 pounds of weight.  I rarely run out of ammo, even on 4-5 kill sorties.  If you're only flying 1 sector before getting in the fight, keep it at 50% internal fuel and carry drop tanks.  In the N model, I usually roll with 50% internal and a 75gal centerline DT.  That's good for around 30 mins + of flight time.  In the D-25 and D-40, more often than not I'll take 100% internal.  In the D-11, I'm max gas at 100% internal and the 75 gallon DT.  I plan on going into the fight at at least 15K or so, so I need the extra fuel to get to altitude.

Fighting in it:  Boom and Zoom to the extreme.  The plane is one of the worst turners in the game--only the 190 series and P-51 turn worse than the jug for the most part.  The D11 is the most dainty, but that's a qualified dainty, as it weighs the least.  It also accelerates faster than the other D's and has a higher top speed since it doesn't have pylons (less drag).  It turns better as well, again since it weighs less, but still is not a turning aircraft.  If you have a head of steam, all of them zoom climb like crazy, but it is so heavy that you really can't work it very well in the vertical.

Evasion:  Against a Spit that's trying to chase me down, I run away if he's say 800 meters or more.  Nothing in the game can match the dive speeds you can achieve if you have the altitude.  If you're slow on the deck, you're a sitting duck.  If they're right on your six, in a shooting position, get creative!  You can't out turn them, you can't outclimb them, and you can't accelerate away.  Enjoy the fact that you can take some punishment and absorb some hits while you maniacally try to force an overshoot.  It scissors fairly well, but only until you run out of smash.  Once you're slow, you can't yank and bank too hard or it will want to snap roll on you.  If you have rudder pedals, use a lot of uncoordinated maneuvers until you're slow, then keep the nose up by using lots of rudder to prevent the snap rolls/stalls.  

I personally think how you set up your engagements is more important in the Jug than any other fighter in the planeset, as you have to be smart.  If you're transitioning from an LA or Spit 16, prepare to be surprised as the Jug cannot get you out of a sticky situation like the "hotrod" planes can.  I usually prefer a fairly sizeable altitude advantage over an enemy in order for me to keep a positive energy advantage during the fight.

Good luck

Ok, thanks for info...gave me lots to try out...My soul ride was before either F4U-1C or Yak...

[Spikes]

Originally posted by Widewing


P-47s were designed for high altitude combat. Above 30,000 feet, they were as good or better than any other type to see service. Up that high they were in their element and extremely formidable.



Widewing

P-47 was designed for high alt combat...but converted to Fighter/Attack role I assume?

[Spikes]

Originally posted by Krusty
and hose them with 8x 50cals.  

heh heh

thats 1/2 the reason I fly them. People think the P-47 sucks because it is so big and all. In the right hands you could be king of Fighter Town.

[bozon]

Originally posted by spikes
P-47 was designed for high alt combat...but converted to Fighter/Attack role I assume?

Like the P38, F6F, F4U, the early models were pure fighters and the fighter-bomber role was added and developed in later models. Same as the P38, the jug was being replaced by the P51 for long escort duties, and available planes were given to the tactical airforces.

Both the P38 and 47 offered good durability and carrying ability which are the most important qualities of a fighter bomber. While the P38 was actually a better mid-low fighter than it was at high alts, the jug wasn't a stellar performer down low. None the less, it proved to be successful even in these conditions and later D models were mostly improved toward this role. The best fighter jug models were probably the razorbacks - up to D23 (excluding the N).

[BaldEagl]

I've flown the P-47D-40 a bit and by no means am an expert on it but for what it's worth these things, like no others in the game I think, dive like a rock.  I spent one night hovering over a furball near an enemy base at 10-12K diving in for oportunistic targets and found that the zoom climb out was reasonably good as long as you maintained E at the bottom.  That does not mean that you can't turn to align a target.

In fact, there were a couple of Spits complaining on 200 that I was "maintaining alt" over their furball (they weren't able to stay with me in my climb out) and after I shot them down they came hunting for me at alt but by then I was gone, home landing my 4 kills.

I've been hoping to try the other P-47's this camp but havent gotten to them yet.  Maybe this thread will inspire me.

[Spikes]

both you guys helped...thanks!

[Husky01]

Jug dweebs!
 Hehe

[Jackraid]

Can I get any college credits from reading these forums...Great info. Love the 47.