Author Topic: So, Sherman VC Firefly.... (Read 7115 times)

Airscrew · « **Reply #105 on:** March 23, 2007, 12:34:17 PM »

maybe, maybe not. Widewing's tank has the coaxial gun, your's the Argentina tank does not have a coaxial gun. In Widewing's those look like British/Canadian soldiers...

Widewing · « **Reply #106 on:** March 23, 2007, 12:36:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Widewing cool find on that photo, brit shermans using the 50 were exceedingly rare.

I'm pretty sure that this was a depot mod... Installation of flexible MGs was a common depot task.

American depots commonly upgraded vehicles. Over 200 Sherman M4A3E2 Jumbos were built in Army depots from M4A3s, using armor kits fabricated in the States and shipped to the ETO. Complete cast turrets and strengthened suspension components were also part of the kit. 3rd Army converted 108 M4A3s to Jumbos (all were fitted with the M1A1 or M1A2 76mm gun).

My regards,

Widewing

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #107 on:** March 23, 2007, 12:51:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Airscrew
maybe, maybe not. Widewing's tank has the coaxial gun, your's the Argentina tank does not have a coaxial gun. In Widewing's those look like British/Canadian soldiers...

Why, because of the helmets? Nope:

From the site where widewing got his 50 cal Firefly pic:

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/argentina.html

"Note the "British style" helmets in the right photo. In truth, the helmets are that in appearance only! They are in fact they are just a protective ring of cork built encased in cloth, just like tropical helmets. Note that they have built in ear pads which enclose the earphone. Lt.Cnl. Carlos R. Doglioli advised TANKS! that "about the Sherman tanks bought by the Argentine Army in 1946 and whose delivery begun in 1947, they included a number of AFVs mounting the excellent British 17 pounder, known here by its caliber in mm., that is 76,2 mm. I am quite sure that Argentina was the only S. American country to field these Sherman with British 17 pounders. All the other S. American countries had Sherman's with 75 mm. guns."

Edbert · « **Reply #108 on:** March 23, 2007, 01:46:56 PM »

^^^^^

What happens when O-Club class intardnet detectives arrive in the GDF for $500 Alex.

Rino · « **Reply #109 on:** March 23, 2007, 01:49:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Guppy35

Hey Pyro asked if it was standard practice or something to that effect. Historo-realism nazi indeed!

Realism uber alles..as long as it isn't the one I like

It wasn't
standard practice to mount an M2 on the jeep..but they managed to slap it on anyway..so there..neener neener.

Ah, what the heck, don't want to scare the Lancstukas away with an
uber pintle mount anyway

Airscrew · « **Reply #110 on:** March 23, 2007, 02:17:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Edbert
^^^^^

What happens when O-Club class intardnet detectives arrive in the GDF for $500 Alex.

Hey I got a badge

Blooz · « **Reply #111 on:** March 23, 2007, 02:49:38 PM »

Bravo.

After searching probably thousands of googled photo's you finally found one with a .50 HMG on a Firefly.

The Browning .50 was standard equipment on most US vehicles and also used by the ground troops. If you google normal M4 Shermans, M8's, Stuart light tanks, M2/M3 halftracks, US supply trucks, boats, ships...etc you'll see almost every one has a .50 on it.

Not so with the British vehicles.

They didn't use the .50 HMG as standard equipment. If you google Churchill tanks, Matildas, Comets, Cromwells, British armored cars, trucks, boats, ships, etc. you will not see a .50 cal in sight.

It is obvious through your diligent searching that there were a few .50's used by the British. Again, it was not common.

Bronk · « **Reply #112 on:** March 23, 2007, 02:58:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Blooz
Bravo.

It is obvious through your diligent searching that there were a few .50's used by the British. Again, it was not common.

Hmm the 3gun La7 was uber rare ...... and yet there it is, sitting in my AH hanger.

Imagine that.

And Edbert Thats some funny chit.

Bronk

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #113 on:** March 23, 2007, 03:19:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Blooz
Bravo.

After searching probably thousands of googled photo's you finally found one with a .50 HMG on a Firefly.

The Browning .50 was standard equipment on most US vehicles and also used by the ground troops. If you google normal M4 Shermans, M8's, Stuart light tanks, M2/M3 halftracks, US supply trucks, boats, ships...etc you'll see almost every one has a .50 on it.

Not so with the British vehicles.

They didn't use the .50 HMG as standard equipment. If you google Churchill tanks, Matildas, Comets, Cromwells, British armored cars, trucks, boats, ships, etc. you will not see a .50 cal in sight.

It is obvious through your diligent searching that there were a few .50's used by the British. Again, it was not common.

He didnt find a British firefely with a 50cal - he found an Argentine postwar firefly with a 50cal. Heck just llok at the URL of his photo nad the site it points to...

john9001 · « **Reply #114 on:** March 23, 2007, 04:03:06 PM »

wow, the BMG 50 haters are out in force.

whah whah ban the uber 50 lazer,

Karnak · « **Reply #115 on:** March 23, 2007, 04:05:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by john9001
wow, the BMG 50 haters are out in force.

whah whah ban the uber 50 lazer,

This has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Squire · « **Reply #116 on:** March 23, 2007, 05:25:17 PM »

...in the end, it matters little, its not going to be killing other Tanks with a .50, even if it had one. If somebody wants to spray at Jeeps or a/c, grab an Ostwind or an M16.

"In Widewing's those look like British/Canadian soldiers..."

They aren't.

Airscrews photo is the "proof" of a .30 browning though, those are British WW2 soldiers, on a Firefly. Good find.

It should be given a .30 Browning on the turret, just to keep the pests away.

Blooz · « **Reply #117 on:** March 23, 2007, 07:20:53 PM »

It does matter.

The other vehicles are modelled correctly.

I'd like to see the Firefly modelled correctly also.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #118 on:** March 23, 2007, 10:33:38 PM »

So how about a .30 cal? If it could have it, and some did have it, even if every single tank didn't, what's the big deal?

Guppy35 · « **Reply #119 on:** March 23, 2007, 11:35:47 PM »

From "La Massue" a history of the Polish Armored Battalion in Normandy where they fought through the Falaise Gap.

First image is a pair of their regular Shermans. Not the storage boxes on the back that could be mistaken for the look of a Firefly from that angle. Also note the 50s on the turret. This is consistant with their unit in about 90% of the photos of regular Shermans in the book and there are a lot of images.

Image of one of the Firefly's from the Polish unit taken at the same time as the preceeding image. Note no 50 on the turret. This too is consistant in the book as there are no 50s shown on any Firefly photos from the Poles.

From the book "No Holding Back" by Brian Reid, about Operation Totalize in Normandy, August 1944. The Poles were a part of this along with Canadien and British units.

Photo shows a Brit Sherman with the 50 well in evidence.

Photo of a Sherman column. Two regular Shermans are there and one Firefly. You can see the 50s on the short gun Shermans, but no 50 is there on the Firefly. For whatever reason they seemed to leave it off the Firefly.