Author Topic: Houses cheaper than cars in Detroit (Read 1329 times)

Toad · « **Reply #45 on:** March 21, 2007, 08:44:04 PM »

And like my paternal grandfather and maternal grandfather, you were probably legal immigrants?

Makes a difference, I think. You had no intention of going back to Cuba every winter.

Suave · « **Reply #46 on:** March 22, 2007, 05:53:24 AM »

$30 an hour for working on an assembly line?

Isn't that like 3 times what policemen start out at?

Torque · « **Reply #47 on:** March 22, 2007, 05:57:14 AM »

yeah...but you still have thunder over michigan.

Phaser11 · « **Reply #48 on:** March 22, 2007, 06:29:59 AM »

FLASH!!!!
This just in the new this morning. The only city that has a bigger outflux of people is New Orleans! That's right!

Fred (one of my co workers) was at the selling of all these homes in Detroit. He figured he could get a cheap house. He was going to bid on one untill he asked about property tax in the city. His house payments would be increased over $850.00 per month to cover the yearly tax!
OMFG

This weekend he is moving out of Wayne county (He is in the city in an apartment right now) this weekend.

One good thing, most of the hi tech (IT) workers are bolting and there are lost of computer jobs(what I do) around here now. If, that is you want to work for GM or Ford.

Todays Detroit report
Scattered gunfire, with intermitent car jackings

lazs2 · « **Reply #49 on:** March 22, 2007, 08:14:47 AM »

toad.. I am saying that I think that toyota is paying the wages in fremont because it was forced to be UAW and... the cost of living is very high in that area.. Ever look at housing prices there?

I am saying that if toyota only has to pay high wages in high cost of living areas... they will always beat out GM who has to pay high wages in crap holes like detroit. The union destroys the ability to be flexible...

Toyota can pay the highest wages.. even UAW robbery.. in a place like fremont cause they don't in the south... GM pays the same no matter what soooo... they have to move out of the country or... simply die.

Management is no better so far as greed but the effect is far less.. and that is the important thing...

You can't justify paying the same wages as a dentist to a man or woman who runs an air drill putting in the same 6 screws every 10 minutes. That is some real bad socialism. You might be able to pay em a tiny bit more in an area where the cost of living is high but your product is closer to say... shipping or freight or large dealers..

But you need the flexability... toyota understands this... the UAW does not.

I have to go with laser on this one... come the revolution and I am gonna be on the side of the rich over the side of the anti individual "poor".

lazs

Toad · « **Reply #50 on:** March 22, 2007, 08:40:51 AM »

So how do you explain them paying tip top wages in Georgetown, KY?

I happen to agree with you on the flexibility issue, btw. It's one of the places where unions are killing the golden goose. In much the same way as thieving managers are killing the golden goose with their golden parachute grab the money and run decision making.

lazs2 · « **Reply #51 on:** March 22, 2007, 08:47:07 AM »

There has to be advantages for the company in order to increase wages. If georgetown has a lot of resouces close by that save the company money for instance... or.. if there is a market that is easily accessable from there.

cost of living must also be taken into consideration... It is maybe not so important in assembly lines since that is pretty much drawing from the same pool as fast food workers so far as education and real skills are concerned.

If I had to train someone for a real job that required learning real skills and further education... I would take a $10 an hour auto zone manager over a UAW worker any day... in fact.. I have.

Flexability is the problem.. we both agree... but the unions do not.

As for management... That is a small part of the overall cost and.. it is a matter for the stockholders to decide.

lazs

Toad · « **Reply #52 on:** March 22, 2007, 09:11:49 AM »

Your argument fails Laz. In every location where Toyo has a plant they are paying far more than prevailing local wages. By your logic, they don't have to do that.

The wages at every plant are fairly competitive with UAW rates.

Toad · « **Reply #53 on:** March 22, 2007, 09:14:18 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
As for management... That is a small part of the overall cost and.. it is a matter for the stockholders to decide.

lazs

Really?

What's the overall cost of incredible stupidity?

These are the guys that determine the product. The Honda Accord came out in 1976; how come 30 years have gone by and the US Big Three stll can't match that line in mpg, price or reliability?

john9001 · « **Reply #54 on:** March 22, 2007, 01:31:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad

These are the guys that determine the product. The Honda Accord came out in 1976; how come 30 years have gone by and the US Big Three stll can't match that line in mpg, price or reliability?

found something interesting, this is the 50th anniversary of the 57 chevy, how has the chevy improved in 50 years?

57 bel air, weight=3566 pounds...........07 impala=3790

HP=283..............................................HP=303

city MPG=14.................................city MPG=18

so fifty years of engineering have given us more weight, little more HP and 4 more MPG.

someone was over paid.

lazs2 · « **Reply #55 on:** March 22, 2007, 02:40:08 PM »

john... until you factor in a zo6 at 550 hp and 26 mpg and over 1g cornering...

have you ever owned a 57 chevy? I have owned maybe a dozen...

toad... we are going round in circles... fact remains that toyota is paying about half the wages (real cost) that GM is OVERALL.. some factories have different deals... like the fremont one... I know for a fact that it has got concessions from the UAW workers by threatening to shut down.

Fact still remains that if toyota had to embrace the UAW in all of it's squalid glory... they would be in as bad a shape as GM

lazs

Toad · « **Reply #56 on:** March 22, 2007, 03:28:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
toad... we are going round in circles... fact remains that toyota is paying about half the wages (real cost) that GM is OVERALL..
lazs

Any you keep ignoring that most of the difference is in legacy costs such as retirement and health care for tens of thousands of retirees.

So you're comparing apples to oranges.

You still haven't told me what should be done with the obligations to the retirees? Just screw em? Or what?

Take away legacy costs and GM and Toyo are damn close in pay to workers. When Toyo has 30 year vets, they'll have legacy costs as well.

lazs2 · « **Reply #57 on:** March 23, 2007, 09:11:52 AM »

toad.. we are not that far apart but.... where did the legacy costs come from?

most of them were UAW demands that happened in a very brief period of a decade or so.... How long has toyota and the other japs been building cars here?

They seen what a union could do to a company.. they had the advantage of 20/20 hindsight and the guts to fight it.

lazs