Author Topic: Throttling back for to try and cause an overshoot -  (Read 516 times)

Offline Joachim

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Throttling back for to try and cause an overshoot -
« on: April 04, 2007, 07:04:03 PM »
Generally speaking, in a 1v1 situation, with planes of roughly equal capability (If you must know I prefer the 109G14/G2/K4); with a bandit closing in on your six, how advisable is it to cut throttle while you break?

Or to cut throttle at all during such engagements?

Offline B@tfinkV

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Throttling back for to try and cause an overshoot -
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2007, 07:26:04 PM »
just try it. it will work to just clear your six more often than not. 109s a fast and retain energy well so the only way to really slow down is cutting to 0% and pulling some slip or G force.

throttle work is just as much a part of gunnery and earning a gun solution as any stick input.

the trouble is we have Energy fighting where you would try to keep full power almost the whole time and wep if possible, a la 109K4 etc. On the other end we have just raw dogfighting, turnfighting or furballing where throttle work is the main faliure of less experienced players who cant understand why thier decent ACMs still wont win, its because they are forgetting to turn off the wep  and do as much again with the throttle as they are doing well with the stick.

109 E/F or G2/6 will furball with the best of them, but its German, it need tender love to make it work perfectly.
 400 yrds on my tail, right where i want you... [/size]

Offline Joachim

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Throttling back for to try and cause an overshoot -
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2007, 08:23:36 PM »
Aye.

I guess really the only way to develop in this area is to do this stuff by trial and error,,and by dying,,,,alot.

Thanks.

Offline Dichotomy

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Throttling back for to try and cause an overshoot -
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2007, 10:14:49 PM »
Or go to the TA and see if you can whistle up someone to fly with you and let you work it out.  If I'm in there I'm always happy to fly target drone or whatever because I always learn no matter what I'm doing.
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Offline Mace2004

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Throttling back for to try and cause an overshoot -
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2007, 12:54:18 PM »
There are three factors in an overshoot:  1) closure, 2) angles, and 3) timing.

The whole point is to put your opponent into a situation where it's not possible for him to "square" the corner to get on your six forcing him to fly past your flight path.  How you do this varies but all three of these factors come into play to some degree.  Usually, one will be the predominant factor.

For instance a Zeke is at 200 mph and a 109 dives toward it from 5k above.  The 109 is screaming along at 450mph trying not to compress.  In this case closure is going to do 99% of the work for Zeke and all he has to do is dodge the 109's shot with a momentary break turn and the 109 WILL overshoot.  

Now, take the same two aircraft but this time they are co-alt with similar e. The 109 is 1k on the Zeke's tail and slowly closing.  Since the Zeke can easily out turn a 109 he waits until the 109 opens fire and then breaks into him.  The 109 cannot "square" the corner and overshoots.  In this case angles are doing 50% of the work and timing the other 50%.  Timing becomes important because if the Zeke breaks too soon the 109 will simply high yo-yo and be right back on him.  By waiting until the last second the Zeke makes sure the 109 is committed and is unable to pull up until after the overshoot has occured.

Now, take the example you're really asking about.  Instead of very different aircraft consider two similar ones, in this case let's say an F6F and F4U.  Again, they are co-alt and similar e with the F6F firmly in the driver's seat with no closure and is trying to pick the F4U apart piece by piece.  Since both airplanes have the similar performance this is a very difficult spot and the F4U is going to lose unless he does something drastic.  A break turn doesn't help because the F6 can do a lazy high yo-yo and there is no significant difference in speed and so they both have comparable turn radius.  The last ditch effort is to break, chop the throttle, drop some flap and, as I have cleverly selected the F4U for this example, drop the gear.  The F6F easily sees the break turn but doesn't realize the F4U is rapidly decelerating and his 0 closure all of a sudden becomes 150mph of closure and an unavoidable overshoot.  Once the F6F crosses the F4U's flight path the Corsair pops his wheels up, slams his throttle forward, hits wep and reverses to a position now on the F6F's tail (or is hopefully at least neutral).  

So, the moral of the story is that you need some combination of closure, angles and timing to create an overshoot.  If you don't have closure chop throttle and create it.
Mace
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