Author Topic: The Armed Citizen (Read 1368 times)

Dago · « **Reply #45 on:** March 30, 2007, 04:30:41 PM »

Smoking kills 400,000 Americans a year. Why in the heck is anyone worried about guns when tobacco is a much greater danger?

Misplaced priority due to the fear of guns by women and girlymen.

DYNAMITE · « **Reply #46 on:** March 30, 2007, 07:16:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dago
Smoking kills 400,000 Americans a year. Why in the heck is anyone worried about guns when tobacco is a much greater danger?

Misplaced priority due to the fear of guns by women and girlymen.

Girlymen? hehehehehhe

Here I always thought guns were for radish$...

Different perspectives I guess

Hornet33 · « **Reply #47 on:** March 30, 2007, 08:02:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DYNAMITE
Girlymen? hehehehehhe

Here I always thought guns were for radish$...

Different perspectives I guess

I suppose it depends on the situation. 2 guys get in an argument. Guy 1 punches guy 2 and guy 2 immediatly goes for a gun, yeah he's a girlyman. A real man wouldn't go for a gun in that situation unless guy 1 was 6'4" and 250 and guy 2 was 5'2" and a buck o five soaking wet then I could see it.

My personal thoughts about using a gun is this. In public I'll use the minimum force needed to difuse the situation. If a simple fist fight is all that's needed fine. However anyone coming into my home is going to be looking down the barrel of a 12 gage shotgun. I don't care who it is. At that point the intruder has already demonstrated malicious intent and will be delt with accordingly.

ravells · « **Reply #48 on:** March 30, 2007, 08:04:01 PM »

So your definition of courage is levelling the odds?

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this girlyman thing

Ravs

Hornet33 · « **Reply #49 on:** March 30, 2007, 08:21:29 PM »

If your asking me that question I'll say that courage has nothing to do with it. My point is that many times a gun is pulled when it's not justified. If I'm confonted with someone my own size and something happens, such as a bar fight or the like, I'm not going to pull a pistol and stick it in their face unless they have a weapon of their own. A fist fight is a fist fight and a real man will treat it as such win or loose as long as the odds are fairly even to begin with. Now 3 guys try to jump one guy, hell yeah pull a gun. The odds are not on your side. It's all subjective, but I've known people that would pull a gun just because someone talked bad to them.

Like I said though, any home invasion, weapon or not, they will be greeted with maximum firepower.

ravells · « **Reply #50 on:** March 30, 2007, 08:26:48 PM »

Fair enough. And I entirely agree with you.

If the fackers are trying to invade my home and if on balance they're more likely to be armed, I'd be armed to give them a hot greeting and i'd have had the foresight to have had training.

What I find irritating is gun lobby people who say that if you're not armed somehow you've got less courage.

Ravs

storch · « **Reply #51 on:** March 30, 2007, 08:59:50 PM »

I don't believe I have ever seen anyone on the pro personal firearm side say that a person who refuses to admit the importance that one should personally be armed for the greater good lacks courage. I think the message is that such a person lacks wisdom. my take on the matter is If you live in a society that does not allow you to defend your life or property with any means necessary then you are not a free person but a subject of your government. I would not live in a society such as that.

lazs2 · « **Reply #52 on:** March 31, 2007, 09:47:26 AM »

I think it funny that some here are so naive... they have never been confronted by three thugs while alone... I think that they would turn that nice shade of grey and pee themselves... before they got beaten or killed..

Guns are for ******* in some cases... Women are the fastest growing segment of the concealed carry and new gun owners... next comes older people... One could say that they are being realistic... they are being smart and pragmatic.

Through experiance they know that they are victims... they also know that all the "brave" guys here who "don't need guns" will run away at the first sign of trouble... if they want to be safe they have to do it themselves. they know that the anti gun guys are too gutless to help.

If I get into a situation... I would rather have one guy with a concealed carry permit (or just a gun) than a dozen of the anti gun wussies on this board. Not one of em gives me any feeling of confidence..

I hear a lot of talk from them but I know how they would react when faced with superior numbers or a weapon like a knife or even a bat. It does me no good to say I told you so while they are peeing themselves and running... I just want to not have to count on them.

I write off anti gun sentiment to either ignorance or some deep seated phobia of weapons or... some fear of taking action.

In any case.. I have no use for these people. I just wish they would go away and leave me alone. I know I can't count on em for anything except attacking my rights. No matter what their reasons.. I find their actions evil.

lazs

DYNAMITE · « **Reply #53 on:** March 31, 2007, 10:13:30 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
I think it funny that some here are so naive... they have never been confronted by three thugs while alone... I think that they would turn that nice shade of grey and pee themselves... before they got beaten or killed..

Guns are for ******* in some cases... Women are the fastest growing segment of the concealed carry and new gun owners... next comes older people... One could say that they are being realistic... they are being smart and pragmatic.

Through experiance they know that they are victims... they also know that all the "brave" guys here who "don't need guns" will run away at the first sign of trouble... if they want to be safe they have to do it themselves. they know that the anti gun guys are too gutless to help.

If I get into a situation... I would rather have one guy with a concealed carry permit (or just a gun) than a dozen of the anti gun wussies on this board. Not one of em gives me any feeling of confidence..

I hear a lot of talk from them but I know how they would react when faced with superior numbers or a weapon like a knife or even a bat. It does me no good to say I told you so while they are peeing themselves and running... I just want to not have to count on them.

I write off anti gun sentiment to either ignorance or some deep seated phobia of weapons or... some fear of taking action.

In any case.. I have no use for these people. I just wish they would go away and leave me alone. I know I can't count on em for anything except attacking my rights. No matter what their reasons.. I find their actions evil.

lazs

You never know how you will react in a situation Lasz...

For example... I was a victim of an ATTEMPTED car jacking... 3 people vs me... And no, I wasn't packing... and yes i fought back... and yes they were armed, and yes I got stabbed (2 times through the forearm and a graze across my chest)

I fought back Lasz... and I got my keys back. Broke one dudes nose. They ended up running from me. I chased one them 3 blocks AFTER I had already got my keys back.

So please don't speak to me of a fear of taking action. Please don't speak to me of being a "wussie" or whatever weak name you come up with next. And please don't assume that just because some of us choose not carry we won't intervene.

If you want to discuss the merits of gun ownership thats fine. Like I've said before...I don't care if you choose to carry. But DO NOT lower the discussion to name calling or baseless assumptions on your part. Talk about showing weakness... weakness of mind that is.

lazs2 · « **Reply #54 on:** March 31, 2007, 10:22:58 AM »

well... now you and I both know how we would react. You got stabbed. I didn't.

I also think that you might be a young guy in good shape. I think it pretty short sighted that you may think you will always be such. How do you think the situation you describe would go down if you were in a wheelchair or say 70 years old tho?

What if you were a woman?

You can choose not to carry... 90% do choose to not carry.. That is fine but your story proves my point not yours. If you could think past your bicep and prejudice you would realize that you got lucky...

lucky that the thugs were not better at their job or got distracted.. lucky that they caught you at a time in your life when you were both willing and, more importantly, able to come out ahead.

your story only proves that there are groups of thugs out there willing to attack people with knives. If you continue to fear firearms as you age or become infirm...

You had best hope that someone with the guts to carry will come to your aid

THE NEXT TIME.

I know you don't get it. I know that you didn't understand a word I wrote. maybe someone else reading it will get it tho. You will probably get it at some point in your life.

lazs

Dago · « **Reply #55 on:** March 31, 2007, 10:54:20 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hornet33
If your asking me that question I'll say that courage has nothing to do with it. My point is that many times a gun is pulled when it's not justified. If I'm confonted with someone my own size and something happens, such as a bar fight or the like, I'm not going to pull a pistol and stick it in their face unless they have a weapon of their own. A fist fight is a fist fight and a real man will treat it as such win or loose as long as the odds are fairly even to begin with. Now 3 guys try to jump one guy, hell yeah pull a gun. The odds are not on your side. It's all subjective, but I've known people that would pull a gun just because someone talked bad to them.

Like I said though, any home invasion, weapon or not, they will be greeted with maximum firepower.

I doubt by your statement you have a CCW, nor do you understand the issues that come with carrying it.

If you are carrying, you will do everything possible to avoid a physical confrontation, because you know your weapon could become dislodged and fall free, or the other person might take it from your holster while in contact.

A fistfight while carrying is the very last thing you want, and you do not want to ever have to pull your weapon, so you learn to avoid confrontation to the point of retreating if necessary and can be done safely.

storch · « **Reply #56 on:** March 31, 2007, 11:01:30 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dago
I doubt by your statement you have a CCW, nor do you understand the issues that come with carrying it.

If you are carrying, you will do everything possible to avoid a physical confrontation, because you know your weapon could become dislodged and fall free, or the other person might take it from your holster while in contact.

A fistfight while carrying is the very last thing you want, and you do not want to ever have to pull your weapon, so you learn to avoid confrontation to the point of retreating if necessary and can be done safely.

that pretty well nails it.

DYNAMITE · « **Reply #57 on:** March 31, 2007, 11:41:32 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dago
I doubt by your statement you have a CCW, nor do you understand the issues that come with carrying it.

If you are carrying, you will do everything possible to avoid a physical confrontation, because you know your weapon could become dislodged and fall free, or the other person might take it from your holster while in contact.

A fistfight while carrying is the very last thing you want, and you do not want to ever have to pull your weapon, so you learn to avoid confrontation to the point of retreating if necessary and can be done safely.

No Lasz... I get what you're saying, but do you get what Dago is saying?

In my situation, everything happened so fast that if I had a weapon on me I'm quite sure I would have lost control of it. Then things may have turned out far worse.

You're right... I was lucky. There is no doubt. And like I said I respect your right and the rights of others to carry. You and others have described multiple situations where a firearm would be an asset.

In my situation it would have been a liability though.

The point of my post, which I think was missed, was to back off the assumptions that those of us who don't carry are cowards, fools, or otherwise unwilling to help. You were arguing your point by defaming your opponent rather than simply sticking with logic and facts. It's something that happens on these boards all the time, and I resent it.

Dago · « **Reply #58 on:** March 31, 2007, 12:58:43 PM »

I have a CCW, but I don't bother carrying. I can if I ever feel the need, and may one of these days, but living where I do, it just hasn't struck me as something I need to do. Plus I am big enough to handle most problems without a gun.

Hornet33 · « **Reply #59 on:** March 31, 2007, 01:33:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dago
I doubt by your statement you have a CCW, nor do you understand the issues that come with carrying it.

If you are carrying, you will do everything possible to avoid a physical confrontation, because you know your weapon could become dislodged and fall free, or the other person might take it from your holster while in contact.

A fistfight while carrying is the very last thing you want, and you do not want to ever have to pull your weapon, so you learn to avoid confrontation to the point of retreating if necessary and can be done safely.

Actually I do have a CCP. I just renewed it again for anouther 5 years. I also follow the laws concerning it. I do not carry in a bar. I leave it in my truck. My point with my excample of a bar fight is I know people who would run to their car and pull their gun when it's not needed.

I'm also a trained Coast Guard boarding team member i.e. Federal Law Enforcement Officer and I know about weapons retention and also using the minimum force neccesary to compel compliance. I've been doing this type of thing for over 10 years.

I also study martial arts so I don't worry to much if I'm in a bar and someone starts getting out of hand. I fairly confident I can handle myself in a situation like that without resorting to pulling a weapon.

I'm also well aware of the moral obligation I have when I do carry. I don't go out looking for trouble, but if faced with a one on one situation, pulling my weapon is the last resort. In most cases it's not needed and that's based on my personal experiance.

Author Topic: The Armed Citizen (Read 1368 times)

storch

storch