Author Topic: Which Model and Version of New Ride?  (Read 425 times)

Offline tedrbr

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Which Model and Version of New Ride?
« on: March 31, 2007, 01:40:19 PM »
Everyone has their favorites in the running (or that were already cut....sorry ).

Many of these planes came in various configurations and different versions, so what do you expect out of your favorite?  Which model or configuration(s).

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A-26Invader


A-26B-Block 50
This is the gun heavy Invader most people think about (most earlier ones retrofitted to this standard as well)
8 X .50's X 400 rpg in the nose (twin vertical stack, as opposed to early horizontal layout)
6 X .50's X 400 rpg in the wings (internal, leading edge)
1 dorsal, 1 ventral twin .50 cal barbette with 500 rpg
4,000 lb internal load, 2,000 lb external wing mounted ord.  Could include 2 torpedos, 1,000#, 500#, 250#, 100#, 2 Drop Tanks, and up to 14 X 5 inch rockets
Powered by 2 × Pratt & Whitney R-2800-79 Double Wasp water injected radials, rated at 2,000 hp (1.491 kW) each, with War Emergency Power of 2,350 hp (1.752 kW) -- 355mph was listed as the top speed.
Included the revised hi-vis canopy from the Block 30's

Only bad point.  This was still a medium level bomber for ord, and would release it's bombs when the A-26C Pathfinder in the lead of a six-plane flight did (A-26C had the Norden Bombsight in it's glass canopy).  After release, it would go low and look for targets of opportunity to strafe.  Good First Hand Account can be read here


A-26C-Block 50
This was the Pathfinder lead plane for level bombing attacks. In place of the multi-configuration solid nose, The "C" got the Norden Bombsight with clear nose section.  
2 X .50's X 400 rpg in the nose (left side of nose section)
Otherwise, the same as above (6 X .50's in wings, engine, ord load), but lighter weight from lack of cannon, and more streamlined nose section, could take top speed to as much as 374 mph (if clean wing).
If the B- model is determined to not get drones, this plane's addition would allow use as medium level penetration bomber in a formation flight.


A-26B-Block 5
First 30 planes sent to front line units for combat evaluations.  I would not use this version myself, but it's addition would allow a 75mm gun package option among the plane-sets for those B-25H fans out there.
1 X 75mm manually loaded nose cannon, 20 rpg
2 X .50's X 400 rpg left side of nose section
6,000 lbs ord capability as above.

* 2 × Pratt & Whitney R-2800-27, -71 or -79 Double Wasp radials, rated at 2000 hp (1490.98 kW) each
* No internal wing guns.  The early Invader could be fitted with 4-twin sets of .50's gun packs at the 4 wing points (8 X .50's X 400 rpg), but the drag from these reduced airspeed by 25 mph. Could not be jettisoned.  Prevented use of wing points to carry it's 2,000 lbs of ordnance.
* "Fat Top" canopy, with poor visibility as compared to the redesigned one with Block 30's.


Those are the three versions.  The first two are easier, as it all comes down to the nose section of the plane, otherwise they are identical.  The third version would require the most changes, and is the most controversial version, as use of 75mm cannon for anti-shipping operations was ending in favor of the use of massed numbers of .50 cals by that time of the war.  Even B-25's were replacing the 75mm for a bank of .50's around that time.


Which version of your plane do you want?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2007, 01:43:41 PM by tedrbr »

Offline eskimo2

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Which Model and Version of New Ride?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2007, 01:43:51 PM »
P-39Q

Offline Yknurd

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Which Model and Version of New Ride?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2007, 01:48:12 PM »
B-25D
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Offline FrodeMk3

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Which Model and Version of New Ride?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2007, 01:51:49 PM »
The way it's usually been, at least since AH I, is once one basic airframe get's in, we start seeing it's different version. For example, Spit's keep coming, 109's revamp from time to time, The F4U-1A made it's recent appearance...

The first airframe, whatever the version, will more than likely soon be followed by other marks, whatever their intro date.

As long as it doesn't take too much tweaking of the basic FM, we could see them even sooner, too.

apart from maybe some CG issues, the Gun pack A-26 should'nt be any different in FM from a glass nose, so I don't see why apart from a skin job, and adding the Bombardier's position, it would'nt be a hard job to do.

Offline Yknurd

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Which Model and Version of New Ride?
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2007, 02:29:58 PM »
I know.

What we need is another couple or three threads about these planes and probably a map dedicated to someone who died.
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Offline 1Boner

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Which Model and Version of New Ride?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2007, 02:53:43 PM »
A-26B

bring on da guns!!!!!
"Life is just as deadly as it looks"  Richard Thompson

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Offline Guppy35

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Which Model and Version of New Ride?
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2007, 03:10:18 PM »
345th BG B25D modifed strafer version named "Quitch"

350th FG P39N named "Evelyn"
Dan/CorkyJr
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Offline FrodeMk3

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Which Model and Version of New Ride?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2007, 04:25:45 PM »
Crap...Guppy, I hate to post this in a way that seems against it, but...

If "Quitch" is a Field Modified version of a standard B-25D, and we include it in the game...

Won't that open the Pandora's box for almost every other plane in the game???

What would happen? Would People come screaming in here, demanding that their favorite plane get this or that special upgrade, simply because it was supposedly done in a field hangar somewhere?

I remember a P-38 thread, for instance, where someone was demanding that HTC fix the FM, because "Actual" combat units ran the Lightning's engines at over 1,800 to 2,000 HP. rather than at the factory ratings.

     I mean, you can see where I'm going with this, right?

Guys, I don't wanna shoot down the B-25, and no disrespect either, Toad, but this is something we gotta consider.

Offline Tango

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Which Model and Version of New Ride?
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2007, 04:40:11 PM »
HE111
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Offline moot

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Which Model and Version of New Ride?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2007, 04:41:10 PM »
Frode, wasn't the Hurri D a field mod applied on something like 50 planes?


The A and B models of the Me410 dont seem to have much difference in dimensions, besides the B's 1900HP engines instead of the A's 1750HP.
I've seen the B referenced here as having never received those 1900HP engines, and found web references saying it was only the B5 through B8 that did not get to use them; but if none had, it would make modeling both the A and B that much simpler, the same way we got the 110C and G.. although it might seem redudant to separate gun loadouts across two otherwise identical models.

The guns historically used in all the different forward firing loadout permutations ("All of the LW's gun types" which equates to as many as 140 in total, apparently) for the Me410 would make for pretty similar loadout options to the AH 110G's.
I've never seen the BK3.5 referenced, so it was probably just less prevalent than the BK5.  Same thing with the Pak38 50mm, I guess.

I'd say, distributed between the A and B variants (since only the A carried the BK5. and the B the MK103s):

-A clean loadout for both A and B: 2x MG151/20, and 2x MG17 or 2x MG131
-One with the BK5 50mm, which had all other guns removed.. perked if necessary.
-A mixed loadout or two, e.g. the clean loadout guns, plus a pair of MK108s (410A- or B-2/R-2) or MK103s
-MK103s included in one loadout at least.
-One with 8 MG151/20s, or at least 6 of them (410B-2/U-2)
-Bombs and 21cm rockets available as they were historicaly: 2x 500kg inside, and/or 2x 500kg on the wings, and/or 4 (or 6?) WGr's on the wings.

Another option that could be good to make would be the removal of the barbettes and their human operator. Apparently some A1's were used for high altitude interception in this configuration:
Quote
I think I may be unique among the members discussing the me 410 because I have actually crawled through the only surviving Me410 in anything like a complete condition.  
I worked at Cosford as a volunteer in the late 70's early 80's with the Society there and for something like eighteen months cleaned tidied and examined the aircraft as much as possible, since then she has been to St Athan where her engines were actually run by the technicians there and ahd some work done before coming back to Cosford.  
As I see it having sat in the rear fuselage directly forward of the turret mechanism for the rear firing weapons the aircraft could have well done without it and its extra weight, all you see on the outside is a couple of blisters and two gun barrels but inside is a bloody great piece of electrically driven machinery weighing about a ton.  It is very complicated and heavy and why they persisted with it I dont know because unless the target was directly behind and some distance away only one gun could be fired, a pair of 13mm machine guns in the rear cockpit would have been more efficient and would double the firepower plus save a massive amount of weight behind the main wing which could only improve handling and stability.

:)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2007, 05:21:31 PM by moot »
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Offline Guppy35

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Which Model and Version of New Ride?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2007, 04:50:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Crap...Guppy, I hate to post this in a way that seems against it, but...

If "Quitch" is a Field Modified version of a standard B-25D, and we include it in the game...

Won't that open the Pandora's box for almost every other plane in the game???

What would happen? Would People come screaming in here, demanding that their favorite plane get this or that special upgrade, simply because it was supposedly done in a field hangar somewhere?

I remember a P-38 thread, for instance, where someone was demanding that HTC fix the FM, because "Actual" combat units ran the Lightning's engines at over 1,800 to 2,000 HP. rather than at the factory ratings.

     I mean, you can see where I'm going with this, right?

Guys, I don't wanna shoot down the B-25, and no disrespect either, Toad, but this is something we gotta consider.


Only thing I'd say in that regard is that it was an Air Force wide modification.  The 5th AF did this with their 25s and as time went on North American provided the kits to take the early models and make them strafers.  Clearly there were North American built B25G gunships, 25H gunships. (Both with 75mm cannon) and the B25J gunships with factory installed noses.  

It wasn't like it was one squadron got the idea and then they were the only one to do it.  B25 Strafers were a fact of life from late 42, early 43 on.

And if it is an issue then I'd say go with a B25J gunship since it was rolled out of the factory that way.

Obviously I'm biased towards earlier model 25s and in particular wishing for a chance to get Toad's Dad 'up' in one based around the B25D strafer he was flying.
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Offline tedrbr

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Which Model and Version of New Ride?
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2007, 11:12:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yknurd
B-25D


Okay;

# B-25C — Improved version of the B-25B: upgraded from Wright R-2600-9 radials to R-2600-13 radials; deicing and anti-icing equipment was added; the navigator received a sighting blister; and nose armament was increased to two .50-calibre machine guns, one fixed and one flexible. The B-25C model was the first mass produced B-25 version; it was also used in the United Kingdom as the Mitchell II, and in Canada, China, The Netherlands, and Russia. First mass-produced B-25. (Number made: 1,625)

# B-25DIdentical to the B-25C. The only difference was that the B-25C was made in Inglewood, California whereas the B-25D was made in Kansas City, Kansas. First flew on 1942 January 3. (Number made: 2,290)


Alrighty then, any other versions of the B-25 Mitchell being asked for?  B-Model for CV-use maybe?

Offline DiabloTX

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Which Model and Version of New Ride?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2007, 11:18:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yknurd
I know.

What we need is another couple or three threads about these planes and probably a map dedicated to someone who died.


Wasn't the pizza map dedicated in the memory all of the FDB's?
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Offline Guppy35

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« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2007, 11:54:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by tedrbr
Okay;

# B-25C — Improved version of the B-25B: upgraded from Wright R-2600-9 radials to R-2600-13 radials; deicing and anti-icing equipment was added; the navigator received a sighting blister; and nose armament was increased to two .50-calibre machine guns, one fixed and one flexible. The B-25C model was the first mass produced B-25 version; it was also used in the United Kingdom as the Mitchell II, and in Canada, China, The Netherlands, and Russia. First mass-produced B-25. (Number made: 1,625)

# B-25DIdentical to the B-25C. The only difference was that the B-25C was made in Inglewood, California whereas the B-25D was made in Kansas City, Kansas. First flew on 1942 January 3. (Number made: 2,290)


Alrighty then, any other versions of the B-25 Mitchell being asked for?  B-Model for CV-use maybe?


If the call was mine, I'd have the B25C/D glass nose so that the RAF birds as well as the MTO birds could be skinned.

I'd have a B25C/D Strafer so that all those PTO birds could be skinned.

Then I'd have the B25J glass nose and B25J Strafer versions for the same reasons.  ETO didn't use the strafers, Pacific did.  RAF didn't have strafers neither did the Soviets but they had both early and late model glass nosed versions.

If you want me to narrow it further, I'd go with the first two and just the B25J strafer so the skinners could go to town with those gaudy paint jobs.

Glass nosed C/D could certainly sub for a Doolittle bird if need be.

And the Navy and Marine 25s could be done that way too.

Personally I wouldn't ask for the G or H cause more often then not they removed the cannon and replaced it with 2 50s.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2007, 11:56:47 PM by Guppy35 »
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