Final Round Begins

[Elfie]

Originally posted by Lye-El
Didn't they toss their guns to get them off the carrier?

Since no one else answered this yet, I will.

They did in fact toss out the guns, armor plate and any thing else they could pry lose. However, it wasn't so that they could get them off the deck. Takeoffs had already been practiced to ensure the B-25's would get airborne off the short decks of a carrier.

The stuff was tossed because the Hornet had been spotted by a Japanese vessel and the best option was decided to be, launch early with as many spare gas cans as possible. In order to do that and still achieve flight at the end of the deck, some things had to get tossed.

[Squire]

The idea of not carrying most of the MGs was made prior to the cruise. They left on the Hornet with a crew of Pilot, Co-pilot, Navigator, Flight Engineer/Gunner Bombardier/Gunner. No tail guns, no side guns. They put wooden guns in the tail before the ship left port, not after.

Range was a problem and they knew that in the planning stages, weeks before they deployed.

Crew of 5.

[AWwrgwy]

Doolittle's B-25's weren't very stripped down.  They were virtually prototypes arriving from the factory.  The B-25B did not have waist or tail guns to remove.  2 .50s in an upper, Bendix turret, 2 .50s in a lower, remote controlled turret, and 1 .30 cal. gun in the nose that the navigator slid into and out of various ports in the greenhouse to aim.

The radios were removed and the lower turret was removed because it was difficult to aim and didn't really work.  Also, the Norden bombsite was removed.

Modifications were made to almost double the fuel capacity.  This actually overweighted the plane by 3 tons.

Not very stripped down.


wrngway

[Movie]

they put broomsticks in the tail to discourage enemy fighters from attacking from the rear. also remember only 1 on the 16 b-25s landed intact but landed in russia, their plane got confiscated and their crew captured. due to the fact that they had zero visibility and bad weather and they didnt have homing beacons, they indeed where some good raiders about few got killed.

[Bruno]

Originally posted by Spongebob
.


The Ki-43 was the most widely-used Army fighter, and equipped 30 sentai (groups) and 12 chutais (squadrons). The first version, Mark I, entered service in 1941, the Mark II in December 1942, the II-Kai in June 1943, and the Mark IIIa in the summer of 1944.

The total production of the Ki-43 was 5,919 aircraft.

This is the plane that the Flying Tigers went up against. The Zero was the main ride of the IJN and the Ki-43 was the primary army fighter.

IMHO this plane was as big a hole as the P-39. I just want the AirCobra 'cause I'm a Yank and we can't get two planes (or can we?)

Read what I wrote a few more time....

There are too few early / mid Japanese planes to begin with - adding a single plane like the Ki-43 would do nothing to fill the 'canyon' that is in the Japanese plane set. The Ki-43 is just a spoon full of dirt into that canyon and has very limited use. The P-39 and B-25 have much wider potential and close gaps completely. I know its hard to comprehend but give it a try...

[Slash27]

Originally posted by tedrbr
Silly.  Only American holes count!  What were you thinking?!

Its done. Move on.

[Spongebob]

I know its hard to comprehend but give it a try...

Did he...is that a...naw, Bruno must mean this in the politest possible way

I got your point. As I said, I just have a different opinion.

The good news is we both get our plane if the AirCobra wins. I bet we get the Mitchell sooner rather than later. See you in the weeds...

Magoo

[Bruno]

Originally posted by Squire
Im glad to see the Beavis and Butthead choice didnt make it to the final round.

There is hope yet...

Either of the two finals actually add something to the game, although I still would have preffered a Russian or Japanese made a/c.  

Disagree with you on the Ki-43 Bruno, my philosophy is "you have to start somewhere" when it comes to the earlier birds?, at some point we need to see the 1942-3 PTO a/c get filled out

The problem Squire is you will get a Ki-43 then no other the plane for sometime to come. So you get a Ki-43 then what? There's are still a huge hole. Now the P-39 was fighting Ki-43 in New Guinea, tt was in North Africa and on the Eastern Front. Given the rate of new planes being introduced (which if IIRC was supposed to be at faster pace once AHII came out) the easy and obvious choice is the P-39. There are just as many holes in the the US PAC plane set as well. The B-25 fill some of them. It was also used in Western Europe, Med and on the Eastern Front. The P-39 is more a Soviet plane then even the Yak-3 in terms of importance.

A single Ki-43 variant has very limited usage not only in events and the CT but it will be a hangar queen given its gun package in the 'mains'.

The P-39 - hopefully multiple variants - will get used in the main arenas. The Q-5 would be competitive in the LW. D and N in the earlier arenas. It will have use in the CT and events etc...

. Of course, I have no illusions on the ranting such an addition will always cause, cuz its not a 1945-hardly-flew-uber-bird with   6 cannons that some 10 year old player has a model of.

[/b]

It is refreshing to see then stupid A-26 defeated. The B-25 will have multi-national, theater and time frame usage as well. Not like the ridiculously stupid choice of the A-26.

The P-39 and B-25 maybe be American built but they - especially the P-39 - were used by folks other then Americans. In large meaningful numbers as well - unlike the stupid A-26.

I would hope they would do a 'Japanese Aircraft Patch' but if they do get ready for ther 'we need F8F and F7F' and 'what about the B-29' - 'we need noooks'.

[Spongebob]

From what I can tell surfing the net, the P-39N and Q have the same engine, with possibly any performance advantage coming from a few pounds of armor subtracted (Q-5) and the different gun packages with associated weight savings from deletions of the wing guns or variations in the weight of the rounds. I don't know that variation in fuel capacity is an issue as you may compensate with your loadout. So N & Q are likely late war rides with the Q being the most produced by far. My vote is for the Q-20 or higher which were mostly produced without wing guns.

For the record I'd like to request an option for the Hispano 20-MM such as was on the P-400 and D-1. I believe the Engine was the same on both these variants. The D-2 had the uprated engine however it was refitted with the spud gun so I guess ya gots to live with the 20-mm Mk1/1150 HP engine and say it better represents the early war P-39.

So here's the wishlist:
P-39D
P-400 or P-39D-1
P-39Q-20 (with option to keep or remove the wing gun pods)

[Slash27]

Originally posted by Treize69
For any of you firefighters out there, just want to point out that American LaFrance made the nose gear for the Airacobra...  

Where did the put the Q2 and the bell?

[Elfie]

Range was a problem and they knew that in the planning stages, weeks before they deployed.

Yes it was. However the fact remains that the Doolittle raid had to launch earlier than originally planned because the Hornet was spotted. Which made the range issue even more of an issue. At that point everything that wasn't an absolute need was stripped from the planes and replaced with fuel cans.

[Wmaker]

nm

[Squire]

Yup, your right on the last minute problems, but some posters seem to think the  reduced crews and guns were all just a result of that, when in fact the B-25Bs were specially modified and crewed from the outset.

In the end they were all but defenceless in the air, save for the surprise factor, its a miracle they were not all shot down over Japan.

[vorticon]

hmm, i have to say i am completly and utterly unsuprised at the final choices...

the only thing that remains to be proven, is if theres more people who want a fighter, or that want a bomber.

[Spongebob]

I'm only surprised the A-26 invader was beaten by the Mitchell, but then I expected the Yak 3 to run a close 2nd...

I guess everyone has a unique perspective on this matter, which explains the wide range of votes:)