Author Topic: The A-20 revisited....  (Read 650 times)

Offline humble

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The A-20 revisited....
« on: April 04, 2007, 02:52:20 PM »
Decided to bruch up on my "skillz"{such as they are} in case we get the vader. I forgot just how much fun the A-20 can be. My best "hop" today was a Ki-84, P-51, 262 and Tempest [think tempest was dinged already]. Also had a p-38, la-7, p-51, 109 run along with a 152 kill and a bunch of other stuff. I'll need to sort thru the films to decide what to post.

Recognizing that the A-20 isnt a fighter and its not going to hang with a fighter one on one from an "equal" footing its a remearkably dangerous bird. Hopefully I'll get a few clips up later on today for those who might be interested....

It will be an interesting time in the MA if we do get the vader....

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline Ongurth

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The A-20 revisited....
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2007, 03:51:13 PM »
the FH was down at an airfield that needed defending the other day and I flew the A20 for the first time.  Not a bad plane, even nailed a YAK with it:aok

Offline Trog

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The A-20 revisited....
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2007, 06:41:59 PM »
I remember in AW some of the better pilots would take up the A26 Vader and just run circles around most of the fighters. That thing could turn like a fighter, flapping, working throttles all over the place.

Now i don't know how it was modeled back then and if it was doing something it really couldn't do , but if it is close it might be fun to fly:)
Trog
71 'Eagle' Squadron RAF

Offline humble

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The A-20 revisited....
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2007, 07:08:02 PM »
I dont think it will turn as well as the one in AW....but who knows...

Here is clip #2


This is a bounce on a low pony...I'm trying to keep speed down low enough but is close call. The important thing to notice is that as soon as the pony breaks I establish a lag position...I think these are real good evasives by the pony driver....obviously he's low slow and hvy...he got a good rolling scissors going and came close to a guns solution twice...had I gone for a shot on the break the angles would have changed enough for him to gain my 3/9 line...the key is to have that combination of position and just enough extra E...you have to either B&Z or take the time to saddle up....

A20 pony bounce

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline humble

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The A-20 revisited....
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2007, 08:36:56 PM »
Clip 3 is another bounce clip, this time a Ki-84...A-20 is tough to keep slow diving ...so it takes a vertical step down. One of the "flaws" of the A20 is that once you get it going south...it's tough to go north:). "Cute" isnt easy to do....the end result is one of those "going up, going down" mutual FQ shots....he lands a few pings as I roll in on him (note I cut the gas...I could have gone higher just misjudged it a bit). I land a few as he tops out but miss my chance at the kill....now we end in a situation that probably favors the Ki. I press him as quickly as I can not wanting an E fight. We end up in a rolling scissors which I can win....when I finally can roll over on him the A20 has no problem keeping up...just those few hundred feet let me "load up" enough to keep him reeled in...

As long as you dont let the other guy saddle up the A20 will absorb alot of general damage....as long as its high deflection high G or similiar shots you'll be ok most of the time....

A-20 Ki-84 bounce

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline humble

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A-20 vs 38....
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2007, 12:40:20 PM »
Very fun fight, Geaux (sp?) did a great job of bleeding my E down and locking me into a fight that just wore the poor A-20 down. Shows both the limitations but also the fact that you can make a good fight...have some nikki and hog clips as well....

A-20 vs 38

Again the A-20 needs to operate with some advantage to really be effective against an average pilot. Against a good stick you have a limited opportunity before you get your wolfs suit pulled and are left with just the sheep skin....

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline tedrbr

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The A-20 revisited....
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2007, 01:28:06 PM »
Nice films, humble.

Been taking a break from AH in general lately, but since the voting started, I did start upping the Yak-9U and A-20 a few times to get a feel how the Yak-3 or A-26 might fair in the game, as winners.

I seriously doubt the 'Vader will be what I've heard it was in AW, especially with all the Low-ENY planes in LW, but has enough performance and capabilities to make for a fun plane in several roles in LW arenas.  1 on 1 a 'Vader can be a handful for any enemy pilot, especially one with a decent gunner.  In a furball with the "Ima perk-plane, kill me!" icon over it, I doubt it has a long life expectancy.  

Not sure what kind of G's the A-20 can pull in game, but A-26's have been known to do 7 or 8 G maneuvers.  Not bad for a medium bomber/attack plane.

Having both dorsal and ventral duel .50 barbettes will help 'Vader's defense.  I imagine a good pilot-gunner team would make a 'Vader especially dangerous.  I rarely take gunners onboard, but flying the A-26 against fighters, I probably would start.  A couple 'Vaders working together could be especially nasty.

'Vader also adds one of the best attack planes to the game.  About as close to an A-1 Skyraider or A-10 Warthog, as you're liable to see in a WWII game.  8 internal 500 lb bombs in bay, 14 X 5 inch rockets on wings, and all those .50's would make difficult for many GVr's, and do a number on any town or airfield.

Figure an A-26 to be faster, tougher, and much better armed version of A-20.  It can also be a level bomber better and faster than the Ki-67 and B-26.  

Hope we do get it.  I'd be looking forward to seeing what I could do with it.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 01:35:46 PM by tedrbr »

Offline humble

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The A-20 revisited....
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2007, 02:27:19 PM »
The real key to the vader in AW was getting it slow...I think it will play out the same here....

Couple more clips from this AM.....

A20vs109F#1

A-20vs109F#2

Again the A-20 wears down over time and in the 2nd clip once the wep went so did I. In both of these (and the 38 clip) I just cant manage the E, angles and control surface authority to convert what i "see" as shot windows....part is obviously recalibrating what I see....second is refining inputs...but I think in the end to fly the A-20 well in this type of fight i'll need to start to "sit on a pitch" looking for a specific move vs my normal read and react....

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline humble

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The A-20 revisited....
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2007, 02:29:33 PM »
Hmmm...

here is what is supposed to be clip1

A-20

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline bozon

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The A-20 revisited....
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2007, 05:11:31 PM »
Don't forget the outside view cheat as with the il2.
This should be disabled with this plane as well.

Dogfighting an A20 is very fun indeed. Sort of like a fat heavy mosquito that doesn't flame when the sun comes out and with the CG in the right location.
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline humble

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The A-20 revisited....
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2007, 05:30:15 PM »
The A20 has a GIB so its not really a "cheat" {it really isnt with the IL-2 either}. No question it helps a bit for overall SA but it will get you killed as well. If you look at the clips I never lose the view in a 1 on 1 (well almost never:)). To me the A-20 is head and shoulders above the mossie as a "fighter"....but that is partially due to the views (from the cockpit)...

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline Geaux

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The A-20 revisited....
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2007, 11:48:17 AM »
Thanks Snaphook,

That was one of the most fun fights that I had that day.  Kept saying to myself "how in the world is this A20 staying in the verticle with my 38?!!??".  I totally underestimated the A20 (and the pilots) abilities.  I was very lucky to get out alive.  I do remember (although I didnt film) letting you get shots on me and having a beat up bird at the end.  If this is the fight I am thinking of, will have to check the film when I get home.   was great fun and now when i see an A20 flying I .f snaphook to be prepared :)

Geaux