Boroda!! Putin under siege!

[moot]

Just sit still for the sharks to have their snack.. make no attempt at swimming to the shore.
Everyone should also give up trying to own anything, since there will always be some small part of what we earn that finds its way into someone else's hands.
Living ought to be stopped too, since eventually everyone dies.

"Freedom and democracy", "due reward for honest work", and "living" are all propaganda.. from corrupt politicians who want what's best for you.

[Boroda]

Moot, I hoped noone will misunderstand what I posted.

We had enough fighting for "brave new world" in the 90s, and we should thank that Yeltsin's gang that they kept the civil war only in Chechnya (such scale was enough for them to steal money from a starving country). We didn't end up like poor Yugoslavia, probably because we have a Bomb and noone will dare to bring "democracy" to Russia with tanks and cruise missiles.

People who propagated "freedom and democracy" here were only puppets that had one goal: steal the results of the 70 years of hard work. Later they were overrun by another gang, that steals just as they did, but doesn't listen to direct orders from overseas (I mean Putin), and pretends to care about national interests and social problems. All this "protests" and "support demonstrarions" are absolutely useless: nothing will ever change if we trade current crooks for old or new ones.

[moot]

Crooks will be crooks, and honest people will fight for fairness.  The human nature to strive for what's best is such, independently of history.

Sitting on your butt because it's all rumoured to be in vain will not be better than doing something.. In fact that would be pretty crooked already.
No fair (enough) government will ever happen with everyone sufficing themselves to defeatist apathy.

[Brenjen]

Originally posted by Boroda
"Democracy" and "freedom" are nothing more then propaganda cliches.

 Boroda, I have to 100% totally disagree with you on that statement. I've always liked your posting & I think you sound very intelligent but every once in a while you spew some of the dumbest sounding tripe.

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

"Mankind are governed more by their feelings than by reason"

 Democracy isn't a "perfect" form of govt. & there is room for improvement in anything that is not perfect; but to say freedom is a cliche? Man you need either a lot more of it or a lot less to fully appreciate it.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by moot
Crooks will be crooks, and honest people will fight for fairness.  The human nature to strive for what's best is such, independently of history.

Sitting on your butt because it's all rumoured to be in vain will not be better than doing something.. In fact that would be pretty crooked already.
No fair (enough) government will ever happen with everyone sufficing themselves to defeatist apathy.

You speak like a Communist.

Please show me one particular party or group in modern Russia to support. Now I vote for Commies, just because they are the same crooks but lost power 15 years ago, so now they simply oppose any ruling group. I have no illusions of what they'll do if they come back to power.

[Boroda]

Brenjen, whai is "freedom"? I am Free, but I don't like "freedom" as it is understood in the West now. I am against "freedom" as a cliche.

BTW, both words were used in Soviet official propaganda, opposed to Western meaning of this word. What I see now is that our new "freedom" is a only for a few to steal and for the majority to be robbed. There is another "extreme" meaning of "freedom" used by Chechen "freedom fighters", it's a freedom to kill, rape and loot. How about that?

Democracy is now an euphemism for media brainwashing the voters to make them feel responsible for the decisions made by so-called "elite".

Terms can be defined in different ways. I define myself as "stalinist", but twp of us see absolutely different meanings of this word.

Funny - I post such rants being deadly sober

[Brenjen]

Well if you are referring to the popular twisting of the words, then I agree with you. If you were calling the actual meaning of the words "cliche" then I disagree.

"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!"

 Sorry but Samuel Adams was eloquent & I agree with so many of his thoughts that I like to quote him.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Brenjen
Well if you are referring to the popular twisting of the words, then I agree with you. If you were calling the actual meaning of the words "cliche" then I disagree.

Probably lingual misunderstanding.

I meant something like Orwell's "newspeak".

I am a "stalinist" meaning that I want people to be responsibe for their actions (not with their lives but at least risking to lose their jobs), while in modern "newspeak" this word is linked with "purges" and "GULAG", that are respectively understood as defined by Goebbels and Solzhenitsyn.

USSR was a 100% democratic country, but who will dare to say it in public now?...

[Chairboy]

Can you outline the specific 5-year plan that will fix this situation?

[mars01]

Man old dogs die hard don't they???

[john9001]

you must forgive Boroda, he spent his whole life in communist USSR, he has no concept of what "freedom" and "democracy" are, to him they are words of the imperial capitalistic warmongers.

[moot]

Boroda,
I don't know of any parties or groups in Russia.  I'd let you anticipate which one I'd support, but considering that you interpret what some of what I find are fundamental values as communism, communication between you and I is not exactly accurate (suffice to say I would never stand for someone who legislates more rather than less honest earnings away from people) .
From what you say though, Russia just may have nothing but sharks.  

Nothing but your own will stops you from swimming ashore. What was it you said recently? "Sometimes I just want to forget and stop thinking", or something like that?  
Well, that'd be your problem, right there.
I've had to deal with a lot of people who have been submerged into their native cultures for so long that they are almost absolutely impermeable to the coherence of anything else.. I mean they can't even entertain perspectives different from their own; before assessing them in any way. You sound like that.

Sorry for the off topic tangent.
Good luck with any fallout from that Putin/whoever situation.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by moot
What was it you said recently? "Sometimes I just want to forget and stop thinking", or something like that?

Let me please tell You that what I said in another thread, where I tried to speak my mind, and did it only because I can't do it in my own language with the people who meet me every day, is in no ****ing way Your business. So I kindly expect You to leave it out of this thread.

I have got enough personal problems to skip any preaching from people that I don't know face to face.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by moot

Well, that'd be your problem, right there.
I've had to deal with a lot of people who have been submerged into their native cultures for so long that they are almost absolutely impermeable to the coherence of anything else.. I mean they can't even entertain perspectives different from their own; before assessing them in any way. You sound like that.

My dear distant friend! I have been submerged into so many cultures that You will simply find hard to imagine.

I enjoy Western culture, I mean it. Russians are not "asian barbarians on their shaggy mounts", we are Christians, we do share some Asian attitude - but we worked as a shield for the West for 300 years, when Mongols failed to get further then Russian Principates.

Do you mean that I should emigrate? I don't feel like emigrating, and in fact I can't: my Father is 80 years old. You guys probably don;t care about such nuisances, but for us, barbarians, it's one of the basic things: we care about our Elders.

My Mother lives in Australia since 1995, she's an Australian citizen, I visited her last Autumn, and I really think Australia is a place to be. But I belong here.

Every country has its own pros and cons.

Here in Russia we trade relative comfort of the Western world for an unimaginable degree of personal freedom.

I have said it before in another thread: In Moscow subway smoking wasn't prohibited until late-1960s. It was simple: noone smoked. Just because they understood it's inappropriate.

Now I can do what I want, I can drink beer in the street, I can do whatever I want, as long as I don't bother others. I simply understand what is appropriate, and I know what I shouldn't do. I can drink with homeless bums, I can sing songs in the street, I can can kiss girls on Easter in the streets (and I am an Atheist - I just like this Russian tradition ) - and noone cares about my alcoholism or moral conditions. That's what I call "freedom" - my own personal freedom. I behave myself and I see most of the people around behaving themselves.

Originally posted by moot
Sorry for the off topic tangent.
Good luck with any fallout from that Putin/whoever situation.

  Thanks. I don't think it will come as far as radioactive fallout.

Moot, what is Your native language?

I can't see any exit from current situation except decorating several thousand lamp-posts with our "authorities", but I am a true Stalinist and don't want to make it that bad.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by john9001
you must forgive Boroda, he spent his whole life in communist USSR, he has no concept of what "freedom" and "democracy" are, to him they are words of the imperial capitalistic warmongers.

I lived in USSR only until I was 20.

Please, note that I have seen how the things are going in the West - "bloody Soviet regime" sent me to the US as an exchange student in 1989, and I see how things are going here in "democratic" Russian Federation since 1992, while most of you guys here never saw anything else then the system where you were born. 99% of you guys have absolutely no idea about life in USSR, all you know is a weird mixture of lies and propaganda.

BTW, you were right about warmongers. "Free world" started more wars in last 10 years then USSR did in 70 years of it's history. It's not an accusation, no offenses please, but I simply can't understand what is it all for