Author Topic: Survivor talks about Virginia Tech massacre  (Read 880 times)

Offline RedTop

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Survivor talks about Virginia Tech massacre
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2007, 05:05:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Actually, it just came out that the Virginia Court ruled him mentally ill and "an imminent danger to himself or others" in 2005.  A psychiatrist recommended that he be hospitalised for treatment.  Yet he wasnt.


Hadn't read that or heard that. Interesting.

But...back to my question....

How do we as americans , make people get help? Which is basically what you mean right?

And before we go any further here I am just asking. No looking to argue or get all uptight.
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Offline Maverick

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Survivor talks about Virginia Tech massacre
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2007, 05:07:57 PM »
According to the news report the court indicated that he could be treated as an outpatient rather than as involuntary commitment. Possible screw up by the psychiatrist in not listing him as needing commitment.
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Offline Maverick

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Survivor talks about Virginia Tech massacre
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2007, 05:13:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by RedTop
Hadn't read that or heard that. Interesting.

But...back to my question....

How do we as americans , make people get help? Which is basically what you mean right?

And before we go any further here I am just asking. No looking to argue or get all uptight.


There is a process for getting an individual evaluated. It has to be ordered by a court and must be severe to get an involuntary commitment. If it's voluntary they can't prevent the patient from leaving during treatment. In Cho's case the court indicated he could get treatment as an outpatient. Keep in mind that this was over a year ago. There was no info in the article I saw regarding follow up visits or court action to require treatment after the first evaluation.

This court order for evaluation and treatment should have flagged him and denied the gun purchase during his records check.
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Offline Yknurd

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Survivor talks about Virginia Tech massacre
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2007, 05:13:28 PM »
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
The police have no obligation to protect you, if you rely on them in an emergency you're as good as dead. Very very rarely are uniformed officers close enough to be effective. Even as they respond, they know much less than than the actual victims and will take valuable time to make sure they know who's who while being tactical... because we don't want the cops summarily shooting people they "think" are armed suspects.


Every dead stalked woman would agree with you...except they're dead because the cops couldn't do anything until the stalker did something and after the stalker did something then there's nothing left to do.
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Offline x0847Marine

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Survivor talks about Virginia Tech massacre
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2007, 05:17:37 PM »
OT: for anyone who thinks the police are obligated to protect 'you', here's some case law info... in some states the police don't even have to respond if you call them.

I'm not ragging on the cops here (except the fat dudes, but that's my issue).. they did exactly as they were trained, and over 30 people are dead. IMO its too bad at least a few students were not legally allowed to protect themselves... having a phone at a gun fight is a losing proposition.

http://psacake.com/dial_911.asp

"It’s not just that the police cannot protect you. They don’t even have to come when you call. In most states the government and police owe no legal duty to protect individual citizens from criminal attack. The District of Columbia’s highest court spelled out plainly the “fundamental principle that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen.”[5]
In the especially gruesome landmark case the “no-duty” rule got ugly. Just before dawn on March 16, 1975, two men broke down the back door of a three-story home in Washington, D.C., shared by three women and a child. On the second floor one woman was sexually attacked. Her housemates on the third floor heard her screams and called the police.

The women’s first call to D.C. police got assigned a low priority, so the responding officers arrived at the house, got no answer to their knocks on the door, did a quick check around, and left. When the women frantically called the police a second time, the dispatcher promised help would come—but no officers were even dispatched.
The attackers kidnapped, robbed, raped, and beat all three women over 14 hours. When these women later sued the city and its police for negligently failing to protect them or even to answer their second call, the court held that government had no duty to respond to their call or to protect them. Case dismissed."

Offline lazs2

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Survivor talks about Virginia Tech massacre
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2007, 09:07:02 AM »
your risk of death by gun goes up when you go into "gun free zones"

If you were in those classrooms... who would you rather have in there with you... a concealed carry guy with a .45 or the guy who passed the "gun free zone" ordinance?

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Offline Maverick

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Survivor talks about Virginia Tech massacre
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2007, 09:17:20 AM »
Don't forget that the weapon free zones mean edged and other weapons as well. If you are in a school, outside of the cafeteria or PE storage locker, there will be no weapons. That means no knives, bats, hockey sticks to use as a means of defense in the case of another school rampage. The cell phones won't stop the attacker either.
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Offline Warspawn

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Survivor talks about Virginia Tech massacre
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2007, 02:35:59 PM »
Is there a case here vs. VT for violation of 2nd Amendment rights?  It's public grounds, and students were prohibited by the institution from defending themselves.  Adult students and teachers were basically threatened with 'punishment' up to and including expulsion if they carried legal firearms on the school grounds.

One armed off-duty cop or ex-military person going to classes that day where this happened could have saved alot of lives...
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Offline lazs2

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Survivor talks about Virginia Tech massacre
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2007, 02:48:28 PM »
I have always felt that the NRA needs to keep a database on people who have been turned down for concealed carry permits or who live in "gun free zones" who were killed by criminals.

They could then have the surviving relatives enter into a lawsuit against the agencies who disarmed their now deceased relatives.

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Offline cav58d

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Survivor talks about Virginia Tech massacre
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2007, 07:48:04 PM »
IF ONLY.  If only this....If only that......Give me a break.  Take off your kevlar vest and helmet, and wake up.  Whats next?  Will I go to PSC 545 tomorrow, and see the top of an RPG sticking out from my professors deck?  But what happens when that isn't enough?  I can just see it now.  People on this board crying "If only we could have had an M1 Abrahams tank in the class room, this could have all been avoided.  give me a break.
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Offline john9001

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Survivor talks about Virginia Tech massacre
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2007, 08:00:31 PM »
you don't need a RPG or a M1 Abrahams, just a small gun in a concealed holster.

Offline AquaShrimp

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Survivor talks about Virginia Tech massacre
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2007, 08:03:26 PM »
I would be willing to allow people with CCW permits to carry weapons on school campuses if the training was rigorous.  I certainly don't want a bullet richochetting off the floor and hitting me in the head because someone was holstering a weapon with a round in the chamber, the hammer cocked, and the safety off.

Make each person who wants a CCW permit pass a 40 hour training course, with a comprehensive written exam along with a field exam, and I'll go along with it.

Offline bj229r

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Survivor talks about Virginia Tech massacre
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2007, 08:16:16 PM »
Was listening to an actual civilized debate on the radio the other day between John Lott and some affable anti-gun puke...when the question was asked to both about whether gun sales ought not be allowed to non-citizens, the ffable anti-gun puke was perplexed: a good commie-lib wants to ban ANYone from owning guns, but ALSO a good commie-lib wants illegal aliens, all the way up to green-card-holders, to have all the same rights we have. He never did give an answer.

(Note: any non-citizen up TO a green-card holder cannot legally buy a gun in the US--alas, our nutberger was a green-card holder with a valid driver's license and no criminal record)
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Offline VooWho

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Survivor talks about Virginia Tech massacre
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2007, 11:06:30 PM »
Here in Tulsa we have a police tatical call (I forgot the name) but if there was a school shooting all officers would be notified and the first cop on the scene is ordered to gear up and enter the building the locate the shooters. Then two teams form up. One goes for the shooter/s and the other team goes room to room and gets everyone out.

This team was used when a man went into a building filled with people, walked to his X-wifes office, and shot her 2min later. The police were already called, and within minutes there were officers storming the building locating the killer (who at this point shot himself) Another team went in and got everyone out.
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Offline Xasthur

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Survivor talks about Virginia Tech massacre
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2007, 11:31:50 PM »
If you don't have guns.... this **** doesn't happen.

Prevention is better than a cure, as they say.

I'm not 'anti-gun' so to speak, but I am Australian and the thought of having guns in the city or populated areas (such as schools and suburbs etc) is completely alien to me. Guns are very rare in most places and where they're not particularly rare, they're just used by farmers for killing foxes and rabbits.

Take a leaf from our book and not have this happen?

Although, the guns won't disappear if you change your laws, they'll still be there, so perhaps you're all ****ed either way?

I think America has 'shot itself in the foot' with its gun laws.
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