VT killer package to NBC...

[Seagoon]

Hi Toad,

Originally posted by Toad
Every second of airtime, every drop of ink given to this creep increase the probability that some other creep will emulate him and try to beat his record.

Unfortunately it may already be a copycat crime. In the tape he speaks of "the martyrs Eric and Dylan" an obvious reference to Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, and the tape itself is just too similar to their "Basement Tapes" - the videos they shot prior to their shooting spree at Columbine. (The partial transcript of which is available here) Same deal, including pointing guns and weapons at the camera etc. Also, you get the same angry Nihilism in both although Dylan and Eric were more obviously sane and sarcastic in their videos.

Unfortunately guys like Cho, Eric, Dylan, etc. are all becoming heroes to be emulated to a rising generation of angry, lost, despairing, suburban boys whose life is nothing but a fantasy world of endless first person shooters where they finally have power and dreams of revenge against the popular kids, the "snobs" and basically the world. In these rampages for a few moments they go from being powerless angry losers to the all powerful Nietzchian "ubermensch" ("We, the gods" to quote Dylan Klebold) they dream of being and spread their own misery around in their own Wagnerian conflagaration.

I'm actually surprised we aren't seeing more massacres, given that we aren't in any danger of running out of the kind of guys who perpetrate them.

- SEAGOON

[LePaul]

Originally posted by ghi
See Rules #2, #5

Its been covered on the news, thank you.  This incident is closer to home.  

As for that idiot...he's burning in the underworld.

[moot]

"the martyrs Eric and Dylan" an obvious reference to Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold,

Wow, such fantasmic BS.  And people would repeal a constitutional amendment for wackos like this one..

[Eagler]

the more attention the media gives to this cheekbones, the more likely there will be an attention starved copy cat

[Ripsnort]

See Rule #2

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Seagoon
Hi Toad,

Unfortunately guys like Cho, Eric, Dylan, etc. are all becoming heroes to be emulated to a rising generation of angry, lost, despairing, suburban boys whose life is nothing but a fantasy world of endless first person shooters where they finally have power and dreams of revenge against the popular kids, the "snobs" and basically the world. In these rampages for a few moments they go from being powerless angry losers to the all powerful Nietzchian "ubermensch" ("We, the gods" to quote Dylan Klebold) they dream of being and spread their own misery around in their own Wagnerian conflagaration.



I'm actually surprised we aren't seeing more massacres, given that we aren't in any danger of running out of the kind of guys who perpetrate them.

- SEAGOON

I'll haveto look for it.
But I've pretty recently read about a study done that showed that since the release of FPS's (I beleive they used "Doom" as their reference point.)
Voilent crime among teens is actually down

I never did buy into the teen violence Vid game/TV connection.
but we as a society seem to feel the need for there to either be a reason for everything. Or a blame for everything.

When in reality I think that sometimes bad things just happen. And sometimes there are just bad people who are going to do bad things
Nut jobs like this have always been around. Just lok at history and they arent real hard to find.
Nut jobs like this are always going to be around.
And very simply put. Dispite our best eforts and intentions. There is very little we are ever going to be able to do about it.

Now I realise this isnt particularly the PC way of looking at it.
And I am in no way attepting to trivialize these events
But I beleive it is in fact what it is.

I will agree however. that the intensive attention being paid to these events. Might encourage other already existing nutcases to follow suit.
By putting out so much information and paying so much attention it it. We are in a way showing other people like this. they are not alone. There are other people like them.
It in a weird way makes them feel "normal" about themselves
It gives them a role model so's to speak to follow

[Suave]

See Rules #5, #2

[Maverick]

This should be reported but it should be done so in a manner that will not provide the scumbag with an epitaph. It should also not be memorialized every year by the mass media. I do not want to appear to be trivialising the loss of those folks at all. I just want there to be a cessation of the inevitible Columbine massacre recreations and rememberances on the news in the weeks leading up to the anniversary date. Continually regurgitating the situation only increases the chance some whack job will think it's his turn to become immortalized in the news doing the same damn thing.

Keep it factual, not sensational and don't keep bringing it up.

[Hornet33]

Yeah it would be nice if the media would just let it go, but I bet withing a couple of months you'll be seeing commercials for "VT Bloody Campus" the made for TV movie. It's sad but it sells and for the media it's all about the bottom line, not what's good for the general public.

[moot]

People feel better when someone pays.  Even if it's not necessary.  
It gives him airtime for the same reason people will enjoy saying on forums how they'd punish or torture this or that wretched criminal.
Every moment spent on people like this guy, after he's done with, is a waste of time.

[myelo]

I would be interested in any statistics on how many people have been shot in their parachutes since AH came out.

[Seagoon]

Hi Dred,

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I'll haveto look for it.
But I've pretty recently read about a study done that showed that since the release of FPS's (I beleive they used "Doom" as their reference point.)
Voilent crime among teens is actually down

I never did buy into the teen violence Vid game/TV connection.
but we as a society seem to feel the need for there to either be a reason for everything. Or a blame for everything.

When in reality I think that sometimes bad things just happen. And sometimes there are just bad people who are going to do bad things
Nut jobs like this have always been around. Just lok at history and they arent real hard to find.
Nut jobs like this are always going to be around.
And very simply put. Dispite our best eforts and intentions. There is very little we are ever going to be able to do about it.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not a behaviorist. Bad potty training experiences or too many video games didn't make this kid respond by shooting people. Neither was this just something that happened, it was the outworking of an evil heart and a twisted, confused, incoherent view of the world.

What I was commenting on above is the fact that guys like Cho retreat into FPS games and other fantasy worlds where they have life and death power over others and are no longer simply unhappy losers living lives devoid of meaning. Most of the school shooters (including the kid in Germany, can't remember his name) prefered life in the game world. Spend enough time there and your inability to empathize or conceive of people as anything but material objects who exist to meet your felt needs becomes solidified and the idea of actually extending the fantasy into the real world becomes more attractive and plausible.  

Also, no matter how we spin it, the fact remains that in the 19th century when Guns were a fairly ubiquitous tool in American homes, we didn't have mass school shootings, and that isn't simply because kids realized the reload time of a wheelgun was too slow to be effective. In addition to not having as much leisure time to fester, the prevailing worldview made such acts inconceivable.

I will agree however. that the intensive attention being paid to these events. Might encourage other already existing nutcases to follow suit.
By putting out so much information and paying so much attention it it. We are in a way showing other people like this. they are not alone. There are other people like them.
It in a weird way makes them feel "normal" about themselves
It gives them a role model so's to speak to follow

I agree with you there.

- SEAGOON

[Charon]

Every second of airtime, every drop of ink given to this creep increase the probability that some other creep will emulate him and try to beat his record.

This should be reported but it should be done so in a manner that will not provide the scumbag with an epitaph. It should also not be memorialized every year by the mass media. I do not want to appear to be trivialising the loss of those folks at all. I just want there to be a cessation of the inevitible Columbine massacre recreations and rememberances on the news in the weeks leading up to the anniversary date. Continually regurgitating the situation only increases the chance some whack job will think it's his turn to become immortalized in the news doing the same damn thing.

Yeah it would be nice if the media would just let it go, but I bet withing a couple of months you'll be seeing commercials for "VT Bloody Campus" the made for TV movie. It's sad but it sells and for the media it's all about the bottom line, not what's good for the general public.

Well, it is odd that we've only had any significant amount of this type of "glory suicide" in about the last 15-20 years or so. Corresponds well to sensational mass media coverage, 24-hour news channels hosing out infotainment and a pop culture that glorifies firearm violence beyond reality and far beyond what was common on the airwaves or screens as late as the 1970s.

I support the 1st Amendment, and believe that freedom isn't clean, cheap or easy and that you have to take the occasional bad or even horrific for the overall good. But it would be nice to see the media actually turn the microscope on it's own dominant role in motivating such events rather than focusing on the tool used in the crime. Hell, the guy even prepared his own press kit.

Oddly, there appears to actually be balanced coverage (by media standards) of the firearm angle this time around. Still puzzling over that clear change of events. The tinfoil hat in me says they don't want to make this a campaign issue before 08. Or, perhaps it's something far more simple. Perhaps the message has actually gotten out, or they've starting to pay attention to the loss of viewers or readers.

But seeing the media take a hard look at itself (I'm sure there will be a few soft 5-15 minute perspectives, perhaps) would really be a surprise. Given his clear linkage to the promotion of the event and the killings, perhaps it will be too hard to ignore. Or, perhaps they just blame the school's actions or failures in the mental health programs and bypass both firearms and the media circus as safely as possible.

I would disagree that the video games "motivate" these actions. Contribute to someone already unhindged -- perhaps. But the overwhelming motivation seems to be the publicity, and specifically so in this case. The killer himself cites that.

[EDIT: Frankly, on consideration, this guy just seems to be ****ing nuts from a society influence standpoint. He clearly wanted the publicity, but his favorite band was Collective Soul of all things, and he rails against debauchery and materialsim in society.]

Charon

[Suave]

All I said was that getting killed by such a loser nerd would be an embarrassing way to go. I know it would be my last thought.

[AquaShrimp]

This kid (Cho Seung-Hui) had a schizoid type personality in which, under great stress, psychotic thinking was brought out.  Basically he was mentally ill and didn't see any way to improve his life.  He truely felt that other people were either actively or passively preventing him for succeeding in enjoying his life.  Thats why he went on his murder-suicide rampage.

With Columbine, one psychiatrist now believes that one of the killers was an actual primary psychopath, someone incapable of empathy and who felt a limited range of emotions.  So thats a true mental illness (unfortunately psychopaths are untreatable).