Author Topic: A Thread for Nilsen (Read 1522 times)

AWMac · « **Reply #30 on:** April 23, 2007, 12:01:15 AM »

Nilsen... Nilsen.....NILSEN!!!!

There is a GOD

lukster · « **Reply #31 on:** April 23, 2007, 07:43:41 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vulcan
Interesting isn't it. Some religions don't require a god to create the universe, some go as far as to openly state they do not fully understand the universe (honesty in religion is such a rare thing) . Even more interesting is how some religions readily label other older religions as mythical despite the supernatural beliefs of their own religion.

But of course nearly every religion thinks it is the 'special one'. Some even go as far to actively discriminate against those that do not agree with their religion.

I find it interesting that there is a common theme through most current and ancient religions, that of the need for a sacrifice. That there is somehing wrong with us which must be atoned for is a belief much older than Christianity and also Judaism. I think Christianity is the only religion wherein God sacrificed himself for us to bring us back to himself.

lazs2 · « **Reply #32 on:** April 23, 2007, 08:11:40 AM »

I am no fan of religion but...I believe that there is a creator and that there is a god who can give us strength that we couldn't possibly have on our own.

I also believe that one of the worst religions is atheism.. I believe that atheists are amoung the most fervent and angry of all religious acolytes.. they preach the most and are the most vocal.. It always smacks of a complex to me.

lazs

Hazzer · « **Reply #33 on:** April 23, 2007, 08:52:55 AM »

Atheism isn't a Religion:aok

Xasthur · « **Reply #34 on:** April 23, 2007, 10:15:29 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Seagoon
Hi Xasthur,

(BTW- Did you get your handle from the band of that name?)

I do however believe that there are contingent entities that they do not have the power of self-existence, and that an infinite regression of contingent entities is logically impossible (I also believe in laws of logic which also cannot really exist if matter is all there is) and that therefore there must be a self-existent entity that brought these dependent entities into existence.

If your presupposition is that there is no one outside the box and no possible source of objective information about reality than I admit that all we have possible is a epistemological tail chasing exercise. I got done with that kind of tail chasing in 1993.

Sir.

- SEAGOON

Hello Seagoon.

Yes, I did take the band name Xasthur as my handle. (I assume that we both speak of the 1-man black metal band)

Thanks for responding. I do agree with that you say about the epistemological tail chasing, I was just interested in what your response would be.

This is a matter that I have not yet formed a strong position on, so i'm still trying subject myself to as many arguements for and against that I can.

Thanks for your time

Regards

-Archaius

jhookt · « **Reply #35 on:** April 23, 2007, 11:09:17 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hazzer
Atheism isn't a Religion:aok

a·the·ism
–noun 1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

re·li·gion –noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

lazs2 · « **Reply #36 on:** April 23, 2007, 02:32:36 PM »

If you have no proof that there is no god yet say that there is not based soley on faith...

It is a religion.

Look how fervent the atheists are! they constantly attack the beliefs of christians and other theists and try to advance their beliefs. They refuse to admit that they are a faith based religion.

lazs

Dadano · « **Reply #37 on:** April 23, 2007, 02:38:46 PM »

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."

Dadano · « **Reply #38 on:** April 23, 2007, 03:11:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
If you have no proof that there is no god yet say that there is not based soley on faith...

It is a religion.

Look how fervent the atheists are! they constantly attack the beliefs of christians and other theists and try to advance their beliefs. They refuse to admit that they are a faith based religion.

lazs

Lazs,

The problem isn't so much with Christianity, as it is with the individuals abusing it .A good example.

Brenjen · « **Reply #39 on:** April 23, 2007, 07:19:52 PM »

I look at it like this; either you believe & have faith or you don't. If you don't & God is real then you're in deep trouble. If you do & God is real; at least you have a shot & you haven't lost a thing in the process.

My faith gives me the strength to live through pain & keeps the fear of death at bay. I find comfort in it & I do not understand how human beings can cope with the loss of; say....their child, if they don't have that faith.

Maybe it's a mental safety net devised by mankind to cope with the un-explainable; but I find it impossible to believe what "science" says happened. I find it easier to believe in creation; scientific theories on creation & life have way too many holes in them.

Take for instance the big bang theory; how big would the mass that exploded have to be to create everything in the universe?

Where did IT come from?

And I could go on. I like the analogy a country preacher once used that I heard speaking, he said;

"The big bang would be like taking a fine Swiss watch apart down to the last screw & spring; placing all the parts into a box & shaking it for a billion years. Upon opening the box you find the watch assembled with the correct time displayed, the spring wound & no scratches or damage to any of the parts; in fact you find them in better condition than they were in when you put them in the box."

Again I say, it's just a matter of faith folks; either you have it or you don't.

Dichotomy · « **Reply #40 on:** April 23, 2007, 09:26:43 PM »

words will never create the faith in people who do not have it

living a life and adhering to a code of conduct can influence it

you can lead a horse to water.. and so on

StSanta · « **Reply #41 on:** April 24, 2007, 12:07:48 AM »

So to sum it up:

A) Everything needs to be created.
B) Therefore the universe was created.
C) By something that doesn't need to be created but always have existed.
D) This something is the Christian God, because this is what Seagoon believes and have faith in.

There's really not much more to it, and it's fine by me. As an argument it's not very convincing however. I mean A and C contradict each other for starters and there's no supporting arguments for D.

There's no support for A). I haven't seen conclusive evidence that then universe might not have existed for ever in some form or state - no argument for or against. So B) is based on A) being true, which hasn't been proven.

Perhaps sometimes it is better to say "I don't know, but my heart, gut feeling, faith, whatever you may call it, tells me it is this way".

To me faith and spirituality are inherently personal, reflecting inwards and always just a tad outside the reach of the conscious mind. Your mileage may vary.

Vulcan · « **Reply #42 on:** April 24, 2007, 01:47:08 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Brenjen
I look at it like this; either you believe & have faith or you don't. If you don't & God is real then you're in deep trouble. If you do & God is real; at least you have a shot & you haven't lost a thing in the process.

Therein lies one of the amusing pieces of christianity. Doesn't matter if you're a good person or not, as long as you 'accept the lorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd' and you get into heaven. But if you're a good person as don't accept the lorrrrrrrrrd then its off the hell with you.

And don't get me started on the 'you don't have faith you evil sinner' stuff.

If I were going to find relgiion I'd go buddhist, far less of the lies and mythological mumbo jumbo the christians try to dish out. Second would be islam, mohammah was a good businessman, some of those ideas about keeping the woman in the kitchen aren't so bad (ducks), and them virgins in the afterlife.... hmmm.

NOT · « **Reply #43 on:** April 24, 2007, 05:02:58 AM »

how about listing some of those "lies" you are refering too.

NOT

Brenjen · « **Reply #44 on:** April 24, 2007, 02:19:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vulcan
Therein lies one of the amusing pieces of christianity. Doesn't matter if you're a good person or not, as long as you 'accept the lorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd' and you get into heaven. But if you're a good person as don't accept the lorrrrrrrrrd then its off the hell with you.

And don't get me started on the 'you don't have faith you evil sinner' stuff.

If I were going to find relgiion I'd go buddhist, far less of the lies and mythological mumbo jumbo the christians try to dish out. Second would be islam, mohammah was a good businessman, some of those ideas about keeping the woman in the kitchen aren't so bad (ducks), and them virgins in the afterlife.... hmmm.

Hardly; you read a lot into that sentence that was not there. Don't quote me if you're not addressing what I said.

My faith is just that...mine. The religious sect that my family raised me in conflicts with your statement as follows:

"Doesn't matter if you're a good person or not, as long as you 'accept the lorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd' and you get into heaven."

I am Christian by definition & that statement is false; you must believe in Jesus Christ as your Saviour but that's not all there is to it. Too bad it's not that simple; most people who have never studied the Holy Bible say the same things over & over as proof so don't feel alone in that.

But if you're a good person as don't accept the lorrrrrrrrrd then its off the hell with you.

Quite possibly. The Bible addresses the subject of "good people" who are unbelievers & the risk of damnation they face.

If I were going to find relgiion I'd go buddhist, far less of the lies and mythological mumbo jumbo the christians try to dish out.

Lies & mythical mumbo jumbo? No more so than any other religion. Buddhism has the noble truths & the precepts etc. They pretty much mirror the teachings in the Christian Bible, they just don't center on God as Alpha & Omega.

Second would be islam, mohammah was a good businessman, some of those ideas about keeping the woman in the kitchen aren't so bad (ducks), and them virgins in the afterlife.... hmmm.

WoW...If I thought you were serious then I would just have to shake my head in disbelief; Islam & Christianity are so close to each other in the belief system it's not funny. Why not at least try Hinduism, at least they're an "ism".