Plan to stop the WHINING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[yanksfan]

Originally posted by NHawk
Every game has an objective. Many seem to have either forgotten or don't know/care that in AH the objective has always been to "Win the War".

Until that changes, any base that's able to be taken is fair game. TT, FT or otherwise.

Actually, IMHO, there are many different objectives to many different people. This is why we tend to give these names, ie toolshedders, furballers etc..

It's very cool that we have one game with so many different angles to play. It really all blends togeather pretty well when you think about it, I was just talking to a friend over on the rook side just few minutes ago, he asked if i wanted to get a capture, on a base he was workin on, I didn't want to take it from him,( cause i don't care) but it ment something to him ,so it was nice of him to offer.
But my point being that if they didn't like taking bases and flying bombers, porking fields towns and ammo dumps, think of how many less targets and areas to find a fight in there would be.
I really think as far as griefers go, if you would just take a deep breath when your about to let somebody have it on 200 or in pm, and think about it a second, you would realize that these guys play their game while you play yours, and they probably acct for a good chunk of your kills by the end of the tour.

[WMLute]

Originally posted by NHawk
Every game has an objective. Many seem to have either forgotten or don't know/care that in AH the objective has always been to "Win the War"

Originally posted by NHawk
Lute, you're missing the point that I agree aerial combat IS the point of the game.

Glad you came around finally.

I personally enjoy almost all facets of the game.  I capture/defend bases, GV, Jabo, resupply, run/participate in mission, Special Events, bomb every once and awhile (not really much of a lvl bomber tho') and loooove a good white knuckle fight.

I had someone call me all kinda "all you wanna do is fight, go to the DA" type things last night, and that is just so off base.  (the base we were over I had just took earlier w/ an m3 ironically enough)  BUT I think sooooo many miss the "point" of the game.

I had the above player attack me with alt, blow said alt in 2-3 passes, tried a reeeeeeeaaaaally bad move and died quick.  So they came back, and all they would do is joust and extend (knowing it was me).  HAD THAT BEEN ME, I woulda been all over 'em.  Can't learn how to kill someone if you not trying.  They said things like "I was defending the base, keeping you from attacking it" or "I am into field captures, and the fighting is not as important to me".  I of course replied that learning how to fight really makes the base captures much easier.

Once upon a time, back in the day when I was still fairly new (1yr ish maybe) I ran across Shane and got beat bad.  I then proceeded to up and fight 'em a good 4-5 times in a row and died quickly 4-5 times in a row.  I then asked Shane if I could film the move he was doing that was killing me so quickly.  He oblidged, and I got a film of me attacking him at three diff alt/speeds.  I thanked him, died fighting him again, and logged.  I then spent a good 30min watching the film over and over.  I got a couple of cig. packs out and tried to recreate what he was doing, and what I should do to counter it.  Lots of cig. pack waving later, I thought I understood what he was doing, logged back on, and went hunting for Shane.

Pretty sure he killed me lot's after that, but I DID end up countering the move and beating him down the road.

That's my point.  It's almost like nobody want's to even try.  One has to up a fast plane just to FORCE people to fight you anymore.  I see far too many people that don't even want to TRY to learn how to fight.  Far too many of the player base think the way you did in the first quote above.  They think the point is to capture fields, and learning to fight is not as important.

How sad for them.  I am not sad because they are not playing the game in the mannor it was intended.  I am sad because they are missing what is the greatest and most magical part of this game.  Aerial Combat.

It is not easy to master.  Heck, I still have so much to learn, but I am willing to learn.  I am willing to practice.  I am willing to try.  I just wish more players had that attitude, and helped pass it on to the new players.

They don't even know what they are missing.

[1Boner]

Originally posted by WMLute
Uhhh... no need to debate.  The game creator has already explained what the point is of the game that he made.

You can TRY to argue with HiTech on what that purpose really is, but i'm fairly sure the outcome would be fairly obvious.

Lose the war?  Arena resets, new map, go at it again.  The war is just to facillitate the aerial combat.  You don't really "win" anything.

As has been said many times in the past, winning the war is merely a sideshow to the aerial combat.

Uhhh... don,t need to debate. don,t care what the game creators point of the game is!

Don,t CARE what anybody SAYS the purpose of the game is.

If i feel like playing "win the war" ..then starting all over again ,i will.

When i play the game that way, THATS the purpose of the game to ME.

If i feel like upping and looking for a fight then landing and upping again repeatedly, i will.

And when i play the game that way, THATS the purpose of the game to ME.

I can,t stand these "elitist" dweebs OR HiTech, telling me i,m playing the game all wrong.

And as far as not "winning" anything?

No matter which way you play the game , the only thing you "win", is a great feeling of satisfaction of having completed something.

It doesn't matter how you get that satisfaction when you play.

Nor is one way of reaching that point any more or less satisfying than another.

Anything I,m NOT doing is a sideshow to the game.

Fighter jock elitist attitudes should be left behind closed mouths!!



Obstinently yours,

Boner

[iWalrus]

Originally posted by WMLute
Wrong.

 

Also wrong.

HT has stated that the object of the game is aerial combat.  Capturing territory is just a means to help faciliate that goal.  But make no mistake, the main thrust of the game is aerial combat.

If you think the "point" of Aces High II is to "capure bases" and "win the war" then you are 100% wrong.

Taking bases and winning the war is but a mere sideshows to  the aerial combat.  The POINT of the game is to fight.  It saddens me how many people have lost sight of that.  

Back in my AirWarrior days I only spent MAYBE 20% of the time trying to capture fields (if that).  It was ALL about the fighting.  Now it seems almost the opposite, and that's too bad.

In AcesHigh, and I really hate to say this, fighting doesn't seem to be that important to people.  They are intent on "winning the war" and the vast majority of them couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag.  I really feel bad for 'em too 'cause they are missing out on what makes Aces High so special.  Taking off and haveing a white knuckle fight with 3-5 opponents, limping your shot up plane back to base and landing those kills.  Gawd that is the best.

So to all those "win the war! GOT TO WIN THE WAR!!!!!" types, you have my deepest sympathies.  I guess hoarding and capturing fields IS easier than learning how to fight, but you are missing out on what is REALLY fun about this game, and that is aerial combat.

I suppose you will tell me next that Twister is not about winning the game.  You probably think it's about having fun and trying to keep your balance while intertwined with drunk cheerleaders.

How 'bout chess, hmm? I'm sure you'll say that winning is of no importance in this game, either. You probably think that it's about outsmarting your opponent, anticpating his moves, and testing your skill while moving little game pieces around a checkerboard.

Well, Sir, you're wrong. All games are about winning and winning only. The problem is all the challenging stuff in the middle.

That's why I've invented a game that gets rid of all that unwanted garbage. It's called Put the Spoon in a Cup. All you need is a spoon and a cup. Once you figure out what to do, and do it, you win.

Once all these morons that only care about winning get wind of this game, they will all leave Aces High for it. It's so easy to win, how could they not? It's coming out in late August sometime. So, after that, your aerial combat should go on uninterrupted 24 hours a day!:aok

[WMLute]

Originally posted by iWalrus
I suppose you will tell me next that Twister is not about winning the game.  You probably think it's about having fun and trying to keep your balance while intertwined with drunk cheerleaders.

How 'bout chess, hmm? I'm sure you'll say that winning is of no importance in this game, either. You probably think that it's about outsmarting your opponent, anticpating his moves, and testing your skill while moving little game pieces around a checkerboard.

Well, Sir, you're wrong. All games are about winning and winning only. The problem is all the challenging stuff in the middle.  

Do you even PLAY aces high?

Define "winning" then.  Is you and a hoard of others dying over and over in vast numbers to take a base winning?  Are the dozens of deaths you suffer trying to pork that ord, or kill that vh winning?

Who really won there.  You and the masses that give me 30 kills to to my handful of deaths or the mass of lemmings that captured a field after dying en-mass for an hour?

I am sure there was a thrill of victory after I captured my first couple hundred bases.  I am positive that I got a kick out of my first 20-40 Win the Wars.

It's a stage.  

Most go thu' it.  

Granted, I also dig a well defended base capture.  I LOVE it when we are at a number disadvantage and still manage to capture that field.  I also love defending against vast hoards of lemmings and preventing the field from being took.  I take special pride in a well timed and executed base capture.  I do take enjoyment from all these things, and hopefully always will.

But in the end, years down the road, what is special, what is MOST special is Aerial Combat.  Flying towards 2-3 planes with alt and shooting 'em all down.  Being surrounded otd with 4-5 bad guys swarming me and making 'em all go BOOM!  Finding myself at a disadvantage, be it plane, position, or numbers, and flying my way to victory.  What a rush!  

Don't get caught up with the side show.  It's still but a minor part of what makes this game the amazing thing that it is.

I've been where you are at.  Can you honestly say you understand where I am coming from?



(still can't figure out people that post stuff here and not put their in-game ID.  makes me wonder what it is they are hiding from)

[1Boner]

Originally posted by WMLute
Do you even PLAY aces high?

Define "winning" then.  Is you and a hoard of others dying over and over in vast numbers to take a base winning?  Are the dozens of deaths you suffer trying to pork that ord, or kill that vh winning?

Who really won there.  You and the masses that give me 30 kills to to my handful of deaths or the mass of lemmings that captured a field after dying en-mass for an hour?

I am sure there was a thrill of victory after I captured my first couple hundred bases.  I am positive that I got a kick out of my first 20-40 Win the Wars.

It's a stage.  

Most go thu' it.  

Granted, I also dig a well defended base capture.  I LOVE it when we are at a number disadvantage and still manage to capture that field.  I also love defending against vast hoards of lemmings and preventing the field from being took.  I take special pride in a well timed and executed base capture.  I do take enjoyment from all these things, and hopefully always will.

But in the end, years down the road, what is special, what is MOST special is Aerial Combat.  Flying towards 2-3 planes with alt and shooting 'em all down.  Being surrounded otd with 4-5 bad guys swarming me and making 'em all go BOOM!  Finding myself at a disadvantage, be it plane, position, or numbers, and flying my way to victory.  What a rush!

Don't get caught up with the side show.  It's still but a minor part of what makes this game the amazing thing that it is.

I've been where you are at.  Can you honestly say you understand where I am coming from?



(still can't figure out people that post stuff here and not put their in-game ID.  makes me wonder what it is they are hiding from)

Wow

YOU just don,t get it, do you?

Glad you enjoy the aerial combat side of this game so much.

But I don,t think that you should be telling people that they shouldn,t enjoy Their own style of playing this game.

Or that their style of game play is stupid or somehow less satisfying than yours.

cause its not.

maybe  its just a stage you,re going through.

And i think i defined "winning" for you in the post above iwalrus' post.



My way is the best:D ,

Boner.

[DaddyAck]

I enjoy the areal kills, I truly do, especially GOOD fights that are exceedingly hard to find considering all the special efforts at dweebieness. I also like to see it when wars are won and bases are taken, again especailly when it means it was a hard faught base capture at a base whoos defenders gave a good opposition to make it challenging.  That being said, I do not mind bombing a field into submission ;however, I do my bombing in level flight at 20-25k and not in dweebish diving lancasters.

I also believe that no matter what people's oppinions on what is "wrong","dweebinsh",or being a "gamer" is.  This game overall is an outstanding form of entertainment that has something to offer for everyone's style of play and personal taste.  That being said it is that same broad appeal that will forever as in real live generate discord over differences of oppinion.  For example one man's lame "HO" is another man's hard earned thrilling kill and one man's lame "running" is another man's way of feeling like he accomplished something by egressing safely to land his kills.  I guess the point I am trying to convey here is thus, we all as part of the AHII comunity will forever have differing views and instead of trying to pick apart HiTech or any of his staffers or the game itself for difference in oppinions, let us come together as a comunity and just have fun in the virtual skies in whatever way that is fun to our own individual tastes.  If we could all just do that, what a comunity would have! One where CONSTRUCTIVE critisisms could be given to HTC in a civilized manner and they could in turn focus on the betterment of an already phenominal simming experience bringing this, our beloved shared passtime to new and greater hights.  So in closing, friends let us consider that differences of oppinion will forever exsist, but let us not let it divide the comunity ;instead, let it deepen our appreciaton of individualiy and the vastness of our virtual AHII word.

[iWalrus]

Originally posted by WMLute
Do you even PLAY aces high?

Yup. My in-game name is WalrusB. I was iWalrus a couple of years ago before taking a long break.

Define "winning" then.  Is you and a hoard of others dying over and over in vast numbers to take a base winning?  Are the dozens of deaths you suffer trying to pork that ord, or kill that vh winning?

I take it you missed the point of my post.

Winning itself has no value. It is simply represents that you have outplayed your opponent(s). That's why people play most games; it is a challenge, which they enjoy. Whether that is bombing a base before getting shot down,  taking supplies to your wounded buddy, or winning a dogfight. If winning were the only thing people wanted, they would all play my new game, Put the Spoon in a Cup.

Granted, I also dig a well defended base capture.  I LOVE it when we are at a number disadvantage and still manage to capture that field.  I also love defending against vast hoards of lemmings and preventing the field from being took.  I take special pride in a well timed and executed base capture.  I do take enjoyment from all these things, and hopefully always will.

When succussful, would you say you enjoyed the fact the fact that you bested your opponents? That you won the battle and took the base or were able to keep them from taking yours? When unsuccessful, did you feel like you "lost"?

Anyway, we're arguing apples and oranges here. You're talking about an aspect of the game that you enjoy, and I'm talking about the fact that there are many aspects of the the game that many people enjoy. The point of the game is not to dogfight. The point of the game is not to win. The point is to enjoy it.

[DaddyAck]

WOW, I type something intellegent and profound, and it gets ignored.  Maby I need to just revert to mindless drivel.

[WMLute]

Originally posted by iWalrus
Yup. My in-game name is WalrusB. I was iWalrus a couple of years ago before taking a long break.



I take it you missed the point of my post.

Winning itself has no value. It is simply represents that you have outplayed your opponent(s). That's why people play most games; it is a challenge, which they enjoy. Whether that is bombing a base before getting shot down,  taking supplies to your wounded buddy, or winning a dogfight. If winning were the only thing people wanted, they would all play my new game, Put the Spoon in a Cup.



When succussful, would you say you enjoyed the fact the fact that you bested your opponents? That you won the battle and took the base or were able to keep them from taking yours? When unsuccessful, did you feel like you "lost"?

Anyway, we're arguing apples and oranges here. You're talking about an aspect of the game that you enjoy, and I'm talking about the fact that there are many aspects of the the game that many people enjoy. The point of the game is not to dogfight. The point of the game is not to win. The point is to enjoy it.

One important point to make.  I never once called anybody a dweeb, or tried to tell them how to play.  All my posts have been about what the point of AH is.  What makes it special.  I never said if you don't think Aerial Combat is important you are wrong.  I WILL say that if you don't think Aerial Combat in Aces High is important you mght be in the wrong game.

Also it should be noted that I stated that all the diff. facets of the game I enjoy.  My list pretty much covers most all aspects of Aces High.  So I agree with the land grabbers that base captures can be fun.  I enjoy porking strat to prevent a capture/attack.  I enjoy GV'n (but I do not really have the patients for spawn camping) and a good JABO run.  I even enjoy doing re-supply of bases.  I love Special Events.  I also love a good dogfight.

By learning Aerial Combat, all of these facets (save the ground pounding) are made easier so to speak.  What I guess I am TRYING to say is that if people would put more focus on Aerial Combat, which is the point of this game, all the other parts of the game are then improved.  When you just focus on winning the war, learning Aerial Combat becomes secondary, and you end up with an arena where 99% of the planes Ho 'n Run and have no clue how to fight.

Tonight in a big furball in LWBlue, I would search the furball for the La7's who were just flying about Face Shooting everything they saw.  I would position myself (i'm in a much slower plane) to be on their six, and they had no clue WHAT to do.  It saddens me all the pilots that when you take away the Head On they have no clue what so ever what they should be doing.  

By moving the focus of the game back towards Aerial Combat, everybody is happy.  I'm not saying don't land grab.  I never said base taking was bad.  Never did, never will.  I AM saying the we need to start trying to shift the focus of the masses in the game back to aerial combat.  



1boner, you almost don't merit a reply, but I will say this.  Wouldn't you enjoy AH a bit more if you were able to get more than one'ish kill a sortie?  Do you not think your fun would be improved if you took the time to learn how to shoot down a couple more planes a sortie?  Wouldn't a base capture be easier if you were able to kill 3-4 defenders vs. the one (ish)?

Do y'all not see how all aspects of the game are imroved by learning how to fight?

[Yeager]

all these ideas would lead to is increased whining

[DaddyAck]

Originally posted by WMLute
One important point to make.  I never once called anybody a dweeb, or tried to tell them how to play.  All my posts have been about what the point of AH is.  What makes it special.  I never said if you don't think Aerial Combat is important you are wrong.  I WILL say that if you don't think Aerial Combat in Aces High is important you mght be in the wrong game.

Also it should be noted that I stated that all the diff. facets of the game I enjoy.  My list pretty much covers most all aspects of Aces High.  So I agree with the land grabbers that base captures can be fun.  I enjoy porking strat to prevent a capture/attack.  I enjoy GV'n (but I do not really have the patients for spawn camping) and a good JABO run.  I even enjoy doing re-supply of bases.  I love Special Events.  I also love a good dogfight.

By learning Aerial Combat, all of these facets (save the ground pounding) are made easier so to speak.  What I guess I am TRYING to say is that if people would put more focus on Aerial Combat, which is the point of this game, all the other parts of the game are then improved.  When you just focus on winning the war, learning Aerial Combat becomes secondary, and you end up with an arena where 99% of the planes Ho 'n Run and have no clue how to fight.

Tonight in a big furball in LWBlue, I would search the furball for the La7's who were just flying about Face Shooting everything they saw.  I would position myself (i'm in a much slower plane) to be on their six, and they had no clue WHAT to do.  It saddens me all the pilots that when you take away the Head On they have no clue what so ever what they should be doing.  

By moving the focus of the game back towards Aerial Combat, everybody is happy.  I'm not saying don't land grab.  I never said base taking was bad.  Never did, never will.  I AM saying the we need to start trying to shift the focus of the masses in the game back to aerial combat.  



1boner, you almost don't merit a reply, but I will say this.  Wouldn't you enjoy AH a bit more if you were able to get more than one'ish kill a sortie?  Do you not think your fun would be improved if you took the time to learn how to shoot down a couple more planes a sortie?  Wouldn't a base capture be easier if you were able to kill 3-4 defenders vs. the one (ish)?

Do y'all not see how all aspects of the game are imroved by learning how to fight?

Naw man, I agree with you. I think that if more people would learn to do more thatn HO, Ram, and Run this would facilitate better quality fights and by doing so would only enhance all aspects of the game.

[yanksfan]

Originally posted by DaddyAck
WOW, I type something intellegent and profound, and it gets ignored.  Maby I need to just revert to mindless drivel.

I thought it was very well put, a bit longer then the avg AH"ER has attention span to read but very well put.

Try and keep your replys under 50 words.

Try not to use words with multiple meanings.

Don't use any word with more then 9 letters

Make one point at a time and separate these points in their own paragraphs

Stay on message,very important, this is exactly how George Bush got elected again.

If you ever reply to a posting that you don't understand, just deflect and insult, deflect and insult.

Keep up the great work and keep the insights coming.