Fred Thompson....Your Thoughts?

[Mr No Name]

Originally posted by Odee
I think he'd be the next Ronald Reagan... Only Fred remembers things.

Alzheimers finally got Reagan but He had the damn good sense to deal with the Evil empire from a position of strength.  I am not sure of your age but at the time of his election, the soviets were expanding all over the world, primarily in the western hemisphere.

Even the KGB file on Reagan said that he was a man who meant what he said and would act on his beliefs.

[Toad]

Originally posted by tedrbr
Not a realistic solution from a practical, political, or geopolitical aspect those.

But Amnesty #8 (since 1986) is realistic and workable?

Riiiiiiiight.

Amnesties never end. Never.  

#9 is just a few years down the road behind #8.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by tedrbr
Absolutely NOT.  We don't need a conservative.  We don't need a liberal.  
We need a Leader.  We need a moderate, since that's where the majority of the American population are at, in the middle.   We need someone who will look after the nation's interests and the interests of the people, not a political party or special interests.  We need someone who will be able to work both side of the isle to actually get something done.

We need to get away from the extremist politics in D.C.  We need to pull  the teeth of the fanatic-religious right and hyper-liberal left.  When the appointment of Federal judges and Supreme Court nominees all comes down to their "political position" (and not legal basis) on one sole issue, which has left many of those seats empty, the lunatics have truly taken over the asylum.  With all the other problems facing the nation that effect people's everyday lives, security, well being, and their future are overlooked for "school prayer" and "flag burning", it is time to re-prioritize in a major big way.

[lazs2]

tedbr... you are a socialist on most views and a republican on others...  

If life is cheap how do you feel about the death penalty?  Maybe if we just let the mother decide?

vouchers are the real hidden 3rd rail..  the school system is about all the democrats have left...  It is not only votes of the union but it is the indoctrination machine.

Immigration.... simple solution is to arrest the employers.. throw em in jail (heck.. if life is cheap then just execute em)  once you jail or execute a few hundred... problem ends... Those that remain need no amnesty... their families can support em or they can just go home..   They won't be able to get a job tho and if they try to use yours or my SS or identity they go to prison.

Legalize drugs... sure... but then you want to turn it into another big government tax machine... Do you simply wish to protect the careers of drug dealers or do you think the government needs more police and agencies?

If you are a moderate then I don't want anything to do with a moderate candidate.

course.... If you were a strong second amendment candidate I might choose you over some other socialist or republican..

lazs

[tedrbr]

I'm a socialist on some views, conservative on some, liberal on others.  I'm for what works best in a particular situation, and much less inclined to follow the party line as a whole based on idealogical platforms.  A pox on all political parties.

You throw the term "socialists" around like a epithet.  A label with negative connotations and lack of regard for the actual definition of the term.  Social Security can be defined as a socialists program: should it be disbanded?  Medicare?  Unemployment Benefits?

There are some things governments are better at doing, or more appropriate that they be involved in, but I'd prefer to limit them wherever possible (military defense).  There are things the free market are better at doing (prisons, schools, local government services).  There are some areas where government may be the lessor of two evils (socialized medicine in response to spiraling out of control medical and health costs).

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by Toad
But Amnesty #8 (since 1986) is realistic and workable?
Riiiiiiiight.
Amnesties never end. Never.  
#9 is just a few years down the road behind #8.

And which, of any of those amnesty programs, also managed to close and secure the border?  Ever?  Of course none of them ever worked!  As long as the door remained open, amnesties simply officially recognized the existing reality..... to officially add those illegal aliens to the tax roles and lower the official numbers of illegals present in the nation.
 
Amnesty is not a great solution now either, and probably should not be a blanket "you are all citizens" wave of a wand.  It should be more of a probation period toward full citizenship and background checks when possible.  A process to bring the illegals to legal status and eventually citizenship.

But, there were estimated to be 11 million illegal immigrants?  How do you realistically deport 11 million people?  How does the repercussions of that not further alienate Latin American countries away from the United States --- and thus increase China's growing influence and growing socialist views in the regions of Central and Southern America.   Do we want to encourage a dozen additional Cubas south of us?  How do you even find 11 million illegals across the nation to deport them?

I've seen the resources and scale of the infrastructure needed to send 150,000 American troops and 40,000 to 50,000 contractors to Iraq, first hand.  Deport 11,000,000 people who don't want to leave?  What do you do with their children that were born in this country (and thus are citizens), if the parents chose to keep them in America, and not take them back to whatever country they are being deported to?  I just don't many folks have a clue as to the scale of the problem or all the consequences to the decisions they'd like to see made.


But the border needs to be secured.  That I think we can both agree on.  It should probably be secured BEFORE the process in which to address the status of illegal aliens is done, to prevent mass migrations to the north.  To stall on the issue of securing the border until the problem of existing illegals is dealt with is typical Disneyland on the Potomac stupidity.


lazs2 sez to just arrest the employers and they will all go home.  I doubt that very much, as there are plenty of illegal activities they could enter into as well.  There will be ways to circumnavigate the checks and balances put into place.

Finally, as I've stated before, the Hispanic population in the United States is now the largest minority group, a growing minority group that are beginning to successfully flex their political muscle.  Far too many politicians are courting their vote to deport so many of their friends, relatives, and former countrymen or risk their wrath in the next election.

[Shamus]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
  You may call yourself a moderate.  But every other single person that has more then 2 brain cells to rub together would call you a socialist.

LOL and we have established that you are only a part time socialist, I am paraphrasing here but I seem to remember you saying that you would be foolish if you turned down the government help that you receive for your education.

Don't feel bad, most people subscribe to Ayn Rand's philosophies when paying but become masters of rationalization when collecting.

shamus

[68Hawk]

Originally posted by tedrbr
I'm a socialist on some views, conservative on some, liberal on others.  I'm for what works best in a particular situation, and much less inclined to follow the party line as a whole based on idealogical platforms.  A pox on all political parties.

You throw the term "socialists" around like a epithet.  A label with negative connotations and lack of regard for the actual definition of the term.  

I absolutely agree, except that free market prisons scare me.  Public schools work better for everyone in the long run when they're properly managed and not manipulated, as an exclusively private school system produces great schools for the rich and pathetic excuses for the poor.  You're right that there's a lot of gray matter in the issue.

[bj229r]

Originally posted by 68Hawk
I absolutely agree, except that free market prisons scare me.  Public schools work better for everyone in the long run when they're properly managed and not manipulated, as an exclusively private school system produces great schools for the rich and pathetic excuses for the poor.  You're right that there's a lot of gray matter in the issue.

I am somewhat an here on prisons-- Ive been in city, county, state, Federal, and a LOT of CCA private prisons---If you're an inmate, private prison is where you wanna be---the biggest thing on the warden's daily agenda is NOT to get into trouble with whichever entity is paying their bills, thus the inmates get their collective arses kissed day in and day out--I've also noticed that government-run facilities are invariably less a 'tight ship' than privates

[Toad]

Originally posted by tedrbr
And which, of any of those amnesty programs, also managed to close and secure the border?  Ever?  Of course none of them ever worked!

[/b]

And that's why the next one, the one you support, will fail as well.

You and I both know the government will NOT secure the border. How'd they do sending those 6000 guardsmen to help the Border Patrol? Not very well; in the only engagement reported so far, the Guard basically ran away. Not assigning blame, merely pointing out that didn't work either.



 

As long as the door remained open,

[/b]

We both know it will.

Amnesty is not a great solution now either, and probably should not be a blanket "you are all citizens" wave of a wand.  It should be more of a probation period toward full citizenship and background checks when possible.  A process to bring the illegals to legal status and eventually citizenship.

[/b]

That's what the last ones were....supposedly.

But, there were estimated to be 11 million illegal immigrants?  How do you realistically deport 11 million people?

[/b]

Pretty easy, really. You realize the problem won't be solved in a day. You actually do increase the size of the Border Patrol/INS to about 1 million men (THERE'S a jobs program for you!). You do actually try to secure the border with those million men. You JAIL employers that knowingly hire illegals. Then when you do catch an illegal at a border crossing or hiding out in the US, you DO deport them.

You don't have to go hunting them but if 10,000 illegals march, you take advantage of the situation and round them up and ship them out.

I think the combination of no jobs available (employers in jail), a secure border and deporting the ones you do stumble across would work. It would take some time. You might expedite it by offering the illegals in country free passage back to their home state with a $1000 good-bye forever gift after the borders are secure.

With no work and no hope of work, I think the problem would eventually be solved.

As for the repercussions in Latin America, I care not. Let them ship their excess population to China, their good buddy. If they all want to become socialist states, that's their business. It's a self-inflicted wound and they'll eventually heal it themselves too.

lazs2 sez to just arrest the employers and they will all go home.  I doubt that very much, as there are plenty of illegal activities they could enter into as well.

[/b]  

They'd just be criminals twice over. When they were caught in their illegal activity, that would be the right time to deport them back across the secured border.

Children born here would go with their parents unless of legal age. Legal age could stay and take their chances in the workforce. When the youngsters that go with the parents reach legal age, they have the option to return as citizens to take their chances in the workforce. Or perhaps they could find legal citizen relatives to stay with in the US. Either way is fine by me.

There will be ways to circumnavigate the checks and balances put into place.

[/b]

And the 8th in a long series of amnesties for illegal immigration is just one more.

Far too many politicians are courting their vote to deport so many of their friends, relatives, and former countrymen or risk their wrath in the next election.

Well, when the Hispanic CITIZENS muster up their political power and take over the country, well... I guess it would be theirs. That's the way things are set up. Hasn't happened yet though. If deportation would do it for them, so be it.  When they get the political majority, they have every right to turn this place into a 3rd world country just like "home" was.

[Gumbeau]

Originally posted by tedrbr
Okay, I consider myself a moderate:
 
IRAQ: Going into Iraq in the first place: Big mistake (SSG Dixie Chick, that's me).  The handling of the war is going to make a great Military Channel special on "Screwing Up By the Numbers" someday.  BUT We absolutely cannot pull out of the country in it's present state --- we created the mess, our national economic and security interests are still tied to that region's stability, we obligated to see it through at this point, though it will take years, lives, and dollars to do so.

Going in wasn't a mistake from a long term geo-political perspective. Your viewpoint here is not moderate, just short sighted or uninformed. Staying in is the only reasonable choice. Also not moderate but a position any american SHOULD agree with.

IMMIGRATION:  Amnesty heck, it's simply recognizing the reality.  Those already living and working in the United States, work out a way toward citizenship.  Deal with it and move on.  At the same time, secure the blasted borders already!

A position I mostly agree with with a few caveats. First, it should be easy to legally enter the US as long as there is a demand for the workers. We should PAY to get skilled labor into the country that is willing to work. If its easy to get in legally, no one will do it illegally. We need the labor, skilled and otherwise. And, yes, we need cheap labor. Americans aren't going to work for low wages and some stuff HAS to be low wage. You can't pay Union scale for unskilled labor unless you want inflation. That is economic reality. If it is really easy to get into the US legally to work then the only illegals will be the ones we really need to pursue, the BAD GUYS.

Securing the borders sounds wonderful but is largely impossible.

This isnt moderate. Amnesty without changing the current immigration process is just silliness. Jailing and deporting every illegal you can is a pro - labor, pro-union protectionist stance. That makes it left wing. Lots of pretend conservatives think it is a conservative stance but it isn't.

ELECTIONS and SPECIAL INTERESTS:  National fund.  All recognized candidates that meet the requirements and get enough signatures on petitions or however, get a percentage of that year's campaign funds.  Not along party lines.  Equally.  No monetary donations.  Equal time to promote their agenda and position.  Watch the lobbyists closely.

This is just plain state controlled elections. It would quickly lead to a totalitarian state. This isn't moderate. Baathist or Stalinist maybe. Mussolini would be proud too.

ABORTION and SEX ED:  I believe a woman should have control over her body in a modern, free society.  The way to reduce the number of abortions is to educate and make available the alternatives to those kids.  Making abortion illegal and hoping all the kids abstain till they are married is just plain dumb and naive. Give them the knowledge, the alternatives, and the support to work their way through the issue.  I don't care at all about the religious angle, and those on the 'all life is sacred' platform should visit Darfur.  Life is very cheap.

Relativism and Me first politics at its best. Left wing of the Democratic party.

DRUGS: Legalize. Tax. Regulate. Tax. Spend the money from the war on drugs and enforcement and prison space instead on treatment and education.  Operating under the influence of drugs handled like DUI's are now.  Companies can still dismiss employees who test positive if that is their company policy under legalized drugs (same as for alcohol today).  Oh, And tax the drugs.  
IMHO, such a move would eventually make a big dent in national crime statistics as well.  Prohibition did not work.  Neither is the War on Drugs.  Just creating different criminal organizations.

Drug legalization is about as far from moderate as one could get.

MILITARY:  A strong, well trained, versatile military.  Hi-tech toys are fine and all, but develop what you need for low intensity conflicts in the mud and city streets as well.  Consider use of National Service requirements to fill ranks, or American Foreign Legions as an option.  

Conservative viewpoint.

NATIONAL SERVICE:  Yes.  Very much.  Some form of service at some point in your life between 15 and 30.  Military.  Medical or Emergency fields.  Teaching.  Volunteer Work.  Conservation work.  Some of the Sciences.  Volunteer Firemen or Paramedic.  National Guard or Reserve enlistment.  It could take many forms with various lengths of time and effort to commit.   Even put a dollar amount on it so the rich can buy their way out of it (without any tax breaks) -- heck, I don't care.  I'd go for a less strict rather than over the top bureaucracy --- which means there would probably be loopholes and cheats, but no matter.  The overall effort and results should be positive.

National Service for those who can't afford to avoid it. Now you are a Monarchist.

OIL ECONOMY: It is in the National Interest to develop alternative energy resources and conservation efforts in order to not have to depend on oil resources from dwindling supplies located in less than stable parts of the world.  This is a Manhattan Project or Apollo Program level effort. Private enterprise and the markets are NOT going to tackle this one to any great effect.  Raise fuel economy levels up to those of Europe, Japan, and China.

Socialist. If the free market doesn't demand it, making a law about it isn't going to help. That's why we are in this mess now.

MEDICAL CARE and SOCIAL SECURITY:  The Third Rail of Politics.  Agree that politicians are not going to solve this on their own before it goes off the cliff.  Assemble a non-partisan group of experts to study every aspect and come out with a viable solution and then bite the bullet on this one.  Everyone will lose something, but there is no other way these issues will ever get solved.  There are no solutions that doesn't hurt some.  Some benefits will get added.  Many benefits will get cut back or disappear.

You don't state a position here.

EDUCATION:  Current system sucks.  Time for school vouchers.  Competition.  Privatized schools not just private schools, but company operated, like some cities, towns and prisons are now run by companies (and often much better than government run ones).  Teachers Unions will scream murder..... so what, they are part of the problem anyways.  Continue to try and fix things from the government side, but it is time to try other things.  Current system does not work.  

You sound like you have children in the school system. Maybe you are government educated and realize how awful it was. You post indicates an indoctrination in the anti-capitalist, government is good garbage you find in many government schools.

In short:  Do what will work.  What is in the best interests of the nation and it's people.  The good of the many outweighs the idealogical dogma of the few.

Much of what you posted IS idealogical dogma.

[rpm]

Tedrbr, unless you want to tax everyone under 100K a year and nobody above it, shoot vagrants & illegal aliens, and give a gun to every man, woman and child you'll never get a vote outa these guys.

[Toad]

I often wonder which US you live in RPM.

[rpm]

I thought there was only one. But according to this board there are more.
 
There's the "tax the poor man not the rich man" US.
The "give everybody a gun" US.
The "put religion first as long as it's the one I believe in" US.
The "if you don't vote Republican you hate America" US.
ect, ect, ect...

Kinda saddens me really. I need to go watch a Jimmy Stewart movie now...

[RedTop]

Originally posted by rpm
What about Rick Perry? He's been doing a lot of chest thumping lately. He's the conservative poster boy and squeaky clean.

NO he's not.