Author Topic: Why I'll never own a Pit Bull  (Read 3817 times)

Offline Odee

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Why I'll never own a Pit Bull
« Reply #135 on: May 04, 2007, 09:37:55 AM »
Sixpence, pull your liberal head out of it, eh?

Quote
Originally posted by myelo
You weren't an intern. Veterinary interns are graduate veterinarians.

And if that's really what happened when dogs were euthanized at that hospital, the veterinarians are committing malpractice. There's absolutely no reason for a dog to vomit and convulse, much less for 5 minutes, during a euthanasia performed according to standards of practice.


Agree with the first and second  parts... There are exceptions to the last.

If the animal still has such a will to live, it will give the appearance of convulsing as the cocktail takes hold, the dog tries to flee.  Loose bowels are not uncommon on death either, though vomiting is extremely rare.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 09:40:26 AM by Odee »
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Offline Sixpence

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Why I'll never own a Pit Bull
« Reply #136 on: May 04, 2007, 10:29:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Odee
Sixpence, pull your liberal head out of it, eh?


Ahhh, the name calling, just admit you don't know what you're talking about
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Offline cav58d

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« Reply #137 on: May 04, 2007, 10:29:36 AM »
Nice looking little man there Indy.  Makes it even better after reading where you got him from.  your a good man.
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Offline Gunthr

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« Reply #138 on: May 04, 2007, 10:30:00 AM »
Quote
Not my point. Its was the 5 rounds to the head I found a bit odd. - Slash


Quote

You weren't an intern. Veterinary interns are graduate veterinarians.

And if that's really what happened when dogs were euthanized at that hospital, the veterinarians are committing malpractice. There's absolutely no reason for a dog to vomit and convulse, much less for 5 minutes, during a euthanasia performed according to standards of practice. - myelo

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Slash:  i shot my very much loved dog in the back of the head.  i expected him to immediately stop moving.  he did not, and i was horrified.  i tried the best i could to make sure it was quick for him.  i'm simply sharing an experience.  i did not hate my dog.


myelo: i certainly was doing an internship for nine months, an unpaid arrangement with full involvment of my college and  agreement from the animal hospital.

it allowed me to learn many facets of animal care, but primarily dogs, and i learned and assisted in everything from cleaning teeth up to assisting in surgical procedures such as anesthesia, castrations, removal of cancer tumors, nuetering of cats and dogs, a half dozen hip displasia surgeries in German Shepards which is very involved, and more, plus a lot of microscopic identification of parasites, treatmenst, and other things to numerous to mention, and of course, euthenasias.  your off the cuff judgement of my experience is irrelevant - unless you want to accuse me of lying.  Organic chem cleaned my clock and i came to realise that i wouldn't be able to compete for admission to Michigan's vet. school.

my observations about how dogs were put down there is accurate.  im sure there were sometimes owners present when an animal was put down, but i never attended one of those.  one caveat: this was quite some time ago.
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Offline Cougar68

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Why I'll never own a Pit Bull
« Reply #139 on: May 04, 2007, 11:36:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Odee
Yes I simplified quite a bit, but no animal is born MEAN  All are born with instincts as you said, that have to be honed, and I have mentioned before... but there are none that are born man-killers.  That's is a learned trait.  Period.
 


Does it really matter if the pit bull is ticked off when he bites your throat?  If the instinct is to kill and gets triggered by a human, it doesn't matter if the pit bull is mean or not.  I agree that any dog can be made aggressive towards humans by poor treatment.  Where we disagree is that a fighting dog's instinct to kill can inadvertantly be triggered at any point.  As you mentioned, herding dogs don't always herd what they're supposed to.  The neighborhood kids are fair game.  (my oldest collie kept herding my friend's daughter back to his side)  So it's not unreasonable to believe that a killing instinct can be triggered in the same way.  

My first wife's father had a pit bull back in Texas.  Typical friendly as all get out, never hurt a flea kind of story.   I was over there one afternoon and he was at my side while I was petting him.  All of a sudden he perked up and was off like a shot.  I heard a yelp and a snap and then he came trotting back.  The whole thing took maybe 30 seconds.  A lab was walking through some nearby brush and he snapped it's neck.  I would never ever trust an animal with that kind of instinct around people.

BTW, the bunny was not staked.  They happened upon it inadvertantly while on a walk at the park.

Offline Vuokko

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« Reply #140 on: May 04, 2007, 12:01:36 PM »
Not pit bulls, but was just in time to took photo when American Staffordshire Terrier and Staffordshire Bull Terrier were attacking my son!!!

You can see fear in his face and how he is desperately trying to defend himself with small wooden stick.... didn't have any of my guns near, so I just took picture....

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Offline myelo

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« Reply #141 on: May 04, 2007, 12:16:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunthr
myelo: i certainly was doing an internship for nine months, an unpaid arrangement with full involvment of my college and  agreement from the animal hospital.  


I'm not accusing you of lying. I'm accusing you of not understanding what an internship is and misusing the term. Internships are for graduate veterinarians who want further training beyond veterinary school, often in preparation for a residency. See here for example.
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Offline -CodyC

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« Reply #142 on: May 04, 2007, 12:16:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vuokko
Not pit bulls, but was just in time to took photo when American Staffordshire Terrier and Staffordshire Bull Terrier were attacking my son!!!

You can see fear in his face and how he is desperately trying to defend himself with small wooden stick.... didn't have any of my guns near, so I just took picture....


lol it took me a while to see where you were going with that.... :)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 12:18:49 PM by -CodyC »

Offline -CodyC

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« Reply #143 on: May 04, 2007, 12:43:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Cougar68
My first wife's father had a pit bull back in Texas.  Typical friendly as all get out, never hurt a flea kind of story.   I was over there one afternoon and he was at my side while I was petting him.  All of a sudden he perked up and was off like a shot.  I heard a yelp and a snap and then he came trotting back.  The whole thing took maybe 30 seconds.  A lab was walking through some nearby brush and he snapped it's neck.  I would never ever trust an animal with that kind of instinct around people.

I had a problem with my heeler when the pitbull moved in with us.  It was more of a territory issue, but they would get in fights on a regular basis.  My heeler always instigated it and i began by just breaking the fights up however i could.  This is a 70lbs pit and a 40lbs heeler, so they were always rough fights.  Eventually i had to resort to whipping the dogs to get them to stop fighting and after enough whippings they stopped fighting all together.

In the case of this pit you described i would have beat the hell out of it.  We all know that dogs need to know what kind of behavior is acceptable and we get it through their heads any way we can be it rubbing their nose in it and spanking them or thumping them on the nose with a rolled up paper.  My heeler who i've been around for about 2 years now(both of my dogs belong to my girlfriend, so i haven't been around them their whole life) knows now when i raise my voice to stop what she is doing and come straight to me.  I've only been around the pit for 3 months and she is slowly coming around.  Dogs take time to groom to the appropriate behavior that you are looking for.

Offline Gunthr

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Why I'll never own a Pit Bull
« Reply #144 on: May 04, 2007, 01:09:44 PM »
Quote
I'm not accusing you of lying. I'm accusing you of not understanding what an internship is and misusing the term. Internships are for graduate veterinarians who want further training beyond veterinary school, often in preparation for a residency. See here for example.


I see.  i seems that im mistaken about the name of the program.
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Offline Elfie

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« Reply #145 on: May 04, 2007, 01:24:21 PM »
All dogs, regardless of breed, are born with an instinct to kill because they are a predator. They are also pack animals and the owner needs to make absolutely sure they are the Alpha member of the pack in the dogs eyes. (The pack leader)

All dogs should be trained in at least the sit, stay and heel commands and should do so immediately w/o regard for their own desires. Far to many dog owners don't teach their dogs anything at all. That is where the problem lies, it lies with the owners, not the dogs.

No dog I have ever owned has ever snapped at me (or anyone else) more than once because they learned the first time that retribution was swift and sure. They learned immediately they were not in charge, I was.

Dogs need training, they need to be taught what behavior is acceptable and what is not. Far to many owners do not take the time to do this. The only dog that can't be trained is the one that has no desire to please it's owner. And that is actually because the dog believes he/she is the pack leader and not the owner. All dogs desire to please the pack leader because they don't desire to be punished.

Again, there are no bad dogs, just bad owners. :)
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #146 on: May 04, 2007, 02:19:24 PM »
The fact remains that some breeds are more likely to bite humans than others.

If you have one of these breeds that is aggressive and is also large and has outsized jaw muscles then you have a weapon.

If you own one you should be convicted of attempted murder if it attacks someone and everything you own should go to the person attacked and you should rot in prison.

Other than that I have no objections to anyone owning any kind of dog they want.

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Offline Sting138

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« Reply #147 on: May 04, 2007, 02:42:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vuokko
Not pit bulls, but was just in time to took photo when American Staffordshire Terrier and Staffordshire Bull Terrier were attacking my son!!!

You can see fear in his face and how he is desperately trying to defend himself with small wooden stick.... didn't have any of my guns near, so I just took picture....




So you stand there and let 2 dogs attack your child while you snap photo's?

Thats great parenting!
:rolleyes:

Offline myelo

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« Reply #148 on: May 04, 2007, 02:48:23 PM »
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Originally posted by Sting138
So you stand there and let 2 dogs attack your child while you snap photo's?

Thats great parenting!
:rolleyes:


He had to take a picture so he could come here and post about it, which as everyone knows is Step 1 in any potential emergency.
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Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #149 on: May 04, 2007, 02:56:15 PM »
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Staffordshire


Here we spell that P-I-T.