Author Topic: 109 steep dive  (Read 825 times)

Offline Kweassa

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109 steep dive
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2007, 01:59:12 AM »
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All 109's have the same weakness to high speeds. Over 450mph they all suffer terrible compression problems that can lead to almost total loss of control in a terminal dive


 No, they suffered from heavy controls in pitch and roll axis when airspeeds were high. Compression is something different. 109s are reported to have easily recovered from dive speeds in excess of 800km/h safely. The elevator trim shifted the angle of the entire horizontal stab plane and was thoroughly effective.

 Ofcourse, in reality, since the trim action required the pilot to use his left hand to manually turn the trim wheel, he'd only have his right hand to apply constant pressure on the stick during trim adjustment. If we assume 50lbs stick pressure for a normal, healthy pilot, in reality the pilot would be able to assert only about 25lbs with his right hand when his left hand is adjusting the trim wheel. But ofcourse, none of this bothers the AH planes, so nothing is more gamey with the 109s.

 
 The roll axis, however, is a different story. This is the true bane of the 109s. While pitch momentum can be altered somewhat easily with the use of trim during combat, heavy and often unresponsive controls in the roll axis at those speeds, is the true reason why the 109 is not really fit as a pure BnZ fighter. Even slight jinking at speeds over 450mph will often make it very difficult for the 109 behind to follow.

 The only real way to get out of this problem is if someone links up his trim controls to the stick control, so every time he swerves his stick left and right the trim would also be adjusted in the corresponding direction, effectively offsetting the effects of stiff controls. In this case, it could be considered quite "gamey".

Offline Benny Moore

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109 steep dive
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2007, 11:51:15 AM »
I had the opportunity to sit in a real Me-109 recently (actually, was a Hispano Buchon, but the only differences are the engine and instruments).  There really is only six inches of travel, and then you're smacking your knees.  I'm a rather small guy, too.  I don't know how a six footer would fit in there.

As such, while you may be able to maintain control at high speeds, the ability to do drastic maneuvers (including a sudden pullout from a steep dive) would be severely limited - just as the real pilots said.

However, the game models this.  The first time I dove an Me-109 at 25,000 feet, I didn't recover.  With proper trimming, you can pull out.  I see nothing unrealistic about the situation.  Nothing needs to be fixed here.  In short, both sides are partially right; the Me-109 did have bad problems in a dive, but it's modelled well in Aces High II already.

Offline SkyRock

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109 steep dive
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2007, 08:57:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
450MPH isn't that fast, really... The 109K-4 does that much in level flight (that's almost its top speed). A dive is going to have to get to 500mph for a 109 to stiffen up, and perhaps 550+ before it really locks up.
:huh  550 +  :huh
« Last Edit: May 07, 2007, 09:00:11 AM by SkyRock »

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