Turning on a dime?

[Sincraft]

Ok probably calling this something other than it is, but I'm trying to figure out how people seem to be able to turn on a dime, especially in spits.

The best way I can describe it is, it looks like a tron like move (if you have seen that movie you know what I'm talking about)

Many have said it consists of rudder usage but when I try to turn with my rudder on my twisty stick, at best it just gives me instability.

I DO use my rudder for turns at times, mostly when I'm chasing someone almost instinctual, but otherwise I have no idea how to do it.

I see these guys, say like a p51, flying along and your behind them, they go up a bit start their turn and are sharply pulling the opposite direction.

Is there anyone with any information on this or, someone that tell me about how to use the twisty stick to do these types of maneuvers?

I remember a game awhile ago that would tell you to do a maneuver, then once you did it correctly it would tell you congratulations etc.  I know that's not possible here so I am thinking of just recording TONS of films and trying to do what I want here, and then when I see it in film from a f3 or f4 standpoint as if I was chasing me, then I'll know I'm doing it correctly...

OR maybe there is help for this?  dunno.  I really could never set a time other than later evenings for training from the training corp, but would make time if there was a master of turning that could help me with this.  

It's frustrating me Thanks for the .info

[Serenity]

1) Lower your speed. High speed means high momentum, means wide turns

2) Roll so your canopy is pointing in the direction you want to turn. Use light rudder to correct for adverse yaw

3) Deploy flaps to tighten the turn

4) pull back on the stick

[Spatula]

As above, the faster you go, the wider your turn circle, and thus it takes more time to get around the wider circle. Slower equals faster 180 reversal, but only up to a point. If you too slow you may turn a small circle but it takes you too long to get around due to your extreme slow speed and flight instability at those very slow speeds. Somewhere in the middle is a 'sweet spot' - this is where you will turn around the fastest possible for your aircraft.
The move your talking about, if i understand you correctly, is some sort of climbing turn reversal like a pitch-back or immelman. This is used when you want to reverse fast but the aircraft is well above its 'sweet spot' speed. The climbing part of your turn slows you down to get closer to your 'sweet spot', then the last 90 degrees or so you probably diving again which gives you back some of your initial speed. The wastes less E than a flat turn. Sometimes, depending on your initial speed, you may want to chop throttle to aid the slow down as you turn. If you drop below your 'sweet spot' speed during the turn (mostly in the mid to later part of the turn), dropping some flaps can help depending on the type of flaps your aircraft has. And also, remember to ride the blackout on the very edge!
A small amount of rudder can help, but its unlikely that a twisty stick will give you the fine-grained control which a set of pedals will give you. Personally, i dont use rudder much, if any, for high-speed turns. I use it for aiming, skidding, assisting rolls, stall-recoveries, taxiing, etc mostly. YMMV.

[Saxman]

High Yo-Yo, I think.

[Stoney74]

One of my favorite maneuvers in the P-51D is high speed, high G turns especially against Spit 16's and Niki's.  Most of them pull much tighter initially and you slide into their low 6 position where they will lose sight.  As your momentum slows, you begin to tighten up the turn and slide in behind them, again, from their low 6.  They figure out you're behind them right about the time you blaze them.  Its sort of a suicide move if they're good pilots, but since most of the vets don't fly them, it works well for me.

And, when I say high-G turns, I mean pulling until the smallest amount of visibility remains, and using pitch and roll to keep them at your high 12 position.  Sorry I don't have film to show you, but you basically lag turn 'em until you're slow enough to pull for a shot.  If they reverse into you, extend away since you'll still be carrying a decent amount of energy.  If you overshoot and they are smart, prepare to get pinged.  I try not to overshoot.  I use one notch of flaps initially and two if needed.  May not be a sound "book" maneuver against planes that are much more maneuverable, but again, since most guys don't fly 'em right, they're usually fodder.

[BaldEagl]

My guess is that you're talking about a wing-over reversal although many planes do it better than Spits (F4F-4's, F6F-5's, P-38's and others).

It usually starts with a high yo-yo type of manouver, typically already well below maximum speeds (the speed you would need to be at to "ride the tunnel").  At the top of the yo-yo you bank the outside wing up and crank in full rudder in the direction of the turn (usually in the direction of engine torque).  This snaps the nose around and your exit line will be almost the same as your entry line if you do this correctly.  It will surprise a lot of people.  No flaps as you're already bleeding E with the rudder and the climb.

This works particularily well as a defensive manouver and also to gain angles in situations where you are outnumbered but it bleeds a lot of E so you'de best be ready for some low speed stall fighting.

Sorry if that's not the move but that's what it sounded to me like you were describing.

[EDIT]  After thinking about it I made a mistake.  This move is best performed in the direction opposite engine torque.  The torque will resist raising the outside wing holding the plane almost in place as the (actually) tail snaps around (i.e. you're pivoting around the dropped wing tip).