OK Larry/TK

[Guppy35]

Just for giggles I searched the AvA forum as this really feels like dejavu for me.  And it turns out this was the conversation I was pushing in 2005.  Same crowd saying stfu or it won't work too

Not meaning you Grits btw

[Larry]

Originally posted by Grits
I agree. This is what I mean about Dan wasting his breath, I dont expect that chip to go away anytime soon. His comments about someone needing to be the "bad guy" are clear evidence that he enjoys his perceived role. Tone is the one thing that the AvA Staff can not control, only the player base can.

Yes I love being the "bad guy" when I gang, and you guys working as a squad when you guys gang. Its like you have to take the hypocritial oath to fly allied. Yes I will always have that chip because when Jg54 left the CT it was cricket city because you guys didnt have anyone to fight, and Im tired of people overlooking that we were the only axis squad while flying agenst alot more allied squads. Again when we get ganged its ok because we are the trash talking bad guys, but when we gang we are trash talking gangers.

[Furball]

Originally posted by Guppy35
Lets go into AvA, take 109s and go in low and make em come down and see if we can change it.

Might have to take some lumps, but who knows.  it might be fun

If i am online, i will

[Eagler]

I enjoyed the brief time in AvA last night though I only rtb back to base once and that was gliding back with a dead eng

as unbalanced as the arena is at times, I'll take it over MA and its hordes anyday. With the right map (close bases) it only takes a few ppl to have good fights.

OM is right, the old days of AvA, really CT times, needs to be buried and a fresh face put on the room with less crying and complaining about planesets or tactics.
Since this bbs is where many first see what ava is about, caution should be taken not to chase them away before they even try out the room themselves.
Fly, die, learn & have fun.

[Shifty]

Originally posted by Oldman731
No, actually he isn't.  Some good can come out of all this, I think.

First, TrueKill is carrying a lot of past history with him, history that really doesn't include most of the people who fly AvA these days.  I can understand why he has a chip on his shoulder, but it's a new crowd, and it would be nice if he would lose the chip.

Second, it's good to see people like Dan, Shifty, Bug and Soulyss coming back here after having had a bad experience or two.  There is a lot of basic good in the AvA.  We need to work with that, and suffer through the bad.

Third, because some squad leaders and other influential types have made an effort to get their people into the AvA, we DO have some new people who will carry MA experiences with them.  I fly in the MA arenas occasionally, and I almost always get caught with a HO, or get vulched, and I DO always get ganged.  We can't really expect that people who are used to that atmosphere will automatically adjust to the kinder, gentler AvA.  (Parenthetically - note the parentheses - I observe that one of our regular squads which has spent the past few months in the MAs has adopted some of these qualities!)

Fourth, the AvA regulars - well, many of them, at least - are very competent.  There are people as good or better in the MAs, but the ace-per-hundred ratio is a lot different.  Dicho has commented on this before.  For a new person, this can get overwhelming, I imagine, and you have to expect that some of them will HO and/or gang out of simple frustration.

Fifth (and last):  We regulars are the ones who ought to be recognizing this, and be the LAST ones to say, "Well, hey, if they're doing it to us, then we're gonna do it to them!"  Chill.  Set the standard, don't drop to the lowest denominator.

Thanks to all who are involved, the AvA boards haven't been this busy in awhile, and it's good to see new people in the arena.

- oldman (and Grits is the madman, not me)

Good post OM. You're correct, the best thing that could happen would be put the past behind and start with a fresh new attitude by all.  That also means new thinking and new ideas should be considered as well. It also may mean a few sacred cows of the past need to be re-thought.

I think the idea of making every setup fair is one reason for the constant bickering. One persons fair may not seem fair to another person. I'd like to see us go with fewer model types in setups concentrating more on the historic than the fair. Some will be an Axis advantage, some will be an Allied advantage. Focus on the model matchup or the historical units involved. I've posted before about a maximum of three fighter types per side, you could put up some interesting scenarios with as little as two fighter types per side.You can still add a few ground attack or buffs to draw that crowd.

The best times I've had in AH since 2001 have been in the CT/AVA arena. What we have been doing the past year, and our behavior the past couple of years is not working ( I'm not talking about JG-54 here, I mean all of us.) We could do things better than we are doing them now, we could do things better than we did them in the past.  We all need to change our prejudices and look at some different options, and ideas. Plus it wouldn't hurt at all if a few hatchets got buried as well.

GUPPY CLEAN OUT YOUR PM FOLDER!

[Grits]

Originally posted by Guppy35
Just for giggles I searched the AvA forum as this really feels like dejavu for me.  And it turns out this was the conversation I was pushing in 2005.  Same crowd saying stfu or it won't work too

Not meaning you Grits btw

No problems Dan. I almost deleted that post for being too negative/pessimistic. The AvA/CT is where I started in AH, I flew there for almost exclusively for a year before I flew more than an hour in the MA so there is nothing I would like to see more than this to work. I still believe the AvA should be the arena of choice for those interested in the history of these planes and not just the MA part of the game.

I will do my part to change the tone.

[Stampf]

I fly in an all LW unit, that flies MA, also FSO, Snaps, and SEA as much as we can.  We enjoy the historical matchups much more than the MA free for all.  So the AvA would be exactly what we enjoy,...only it's not.  We tried it and were appalled by the same things that have been brought up countless times.  The final straw was my son being brought to the brink of tears when landing three hard fought kills, he was shot down by a field gun on his own field.  I don't have to name names, or squads.  Every one who has ever flown in the AvA knows exactly what and who the problems there are.  I'll keep monitoring these boards to see if things get better, but obviously as someone mentioned...we still have the same old issues.

We would love to offer another regular Axis unit to the order of battle, but not until the "Do as I say, not as I do" "elite" grow up, turn a page, and decide that having fun is the priorty here.  I have heard some say they prefer having low numbers in the arena.  That's the wrong approach in my opinion.

[Shifty]

Originally posted by Stampf


We would love to offer another regular Axis unit to the order of battle, but not until the "Do as I say, not as I do" "elite" grow up, turn a page, and decide that having fun is the priorty here.  I have heard some say they prefer having low numbers in the arena.  That's the wrong approach in my opinion.

Sorry to hear what happened with your son. Keep monitoring the AVA boards. I'd like nothing better than to see more squads fly here. Another Axis squad would be a great addition. I agree with your opinon about low numbers. Low numbers are the biggest problem, we need to attract more old and new players, and find a way to keep them.

[storch]

Originally posted by Stampf
I fly in an all LW unit, that flies MA, also FSO, Snaps, and SEA as much as we can.  We enjoy the historical matchups much more than the MA free for all.  So the AvA would be exactly what we enjoy,...only it's not.  We tried it and were appalled by the same things that have been brought up countless times.  The final straw was my son being brought to the brink of tears when landing three hard fought kills, he was shot down by a field gun on his own field.  I don't have to name names, or squads.  Every one who has ever flown in the AvA knows exactly what and who the problems there are.  I'll keep monitoring these boards to see if things get better, but obviously as someone mentioned...we still have the same old issues.

We would love to offer another regular Axis unit to the order of battle, but not until the "Do as I say, not as I do" "elite" grow up, turn a page, and decide that having fun is the priorty here.  I have heard some say they prefer having low numbers in the arena.  That's the wrong approach in my opinion.

yup well there are always two sides to every story.  you guys were and are a bunch of vultching ack runners exhibiting some of the worst game play I have ever personally witnessed in the arena.  I doubt there was a "hard won" victory by any of you guys especially at that time one year ago.  your departure is no loss by my reckoning.

[Stampf]

That may work on 200 or with new players sir, but too many people in this game and on these boards know JG11 now, and therefor know that is nothing but untrue and just typical of why these threads even have to exist.

Thanks Shifty.  Good luck.

[storch]

no sir it is categorically true. and it was especially true of the JG54 "black crosses"  the last time I ran into you, you were at 10k above a fight picking and HOing with a dora.  maybe you have changed in the last few months though.

[Grits]

Originally posted by Grits
I almost deleted that post for being too negative/pessimistic.

...and yet...somehow unfortunately I think my assessment of the success of "changing the tone" is correct.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Grits
...and yet...somehow unfortunately I think my assessment of the success of "changing the tone" is correct.

Ya think?

There does seem to be a bit of 'us against the world' regardless of how it affects the overall health of the AvA

[KONG1]

All this complaining about "tone" reminds of my ex (shudders). As does two threads full of incessant repetitive nattering.

I'm beginning to think Dan is actually Dawn.

Hike up your skirt, quit yer *****in', shut up and shoot. There's no crying in the AvA. That goes for all of ya.

Dismissed

PS. Oldman IS nuts

[Guppy35]

My wife of 25 years would be a bit surprised to find out I was Dawn

We'd be hard pressed to explain the children as well:noid

Me thinks you miss the point KONG.  Or are you content for the AvA to continue sputtering along with very few occupants?