Lag roll

[Hawco]

Please pray tell, is a lag roll? Saw it mentioned on another forum and was wondering what it was.
Thanks!
Hawco

[SlapShot]

The lag roll is used if the attacking angle is excessive and also you have a large surplus of speed.

One rises and rolls away from the opponent and after one barrel roll you should be at a good angle behind the opponent (possibly even outside of his view).

[Hawco]

Thank you sir!

[Gumbeau]

There are several different uses for the lag roll.

Also called a lag displacement roll.

It is named the lag roll because it converts an excess lead pursuit position to a lag pursuit position.

Anytime you are in an excess lead position you can use the lag roll to displace your flight path

Offensively, I most commonly use the lag roll when the bandit I am chasing reverses his turn or begins a flat scissors.

For example, I dive in on a bandit and reacts with a right break. Since I have excessive closure I go nose high to initiate a high yo yo to remain on his turn circle. As I go nose high the bandit reverses his break. At the initiation of the High Yo Yo I'm in a lag pursuit situation. The opponent's reversal instantly turns lag to lead. I dont like that because it is likely to cause an overshoot. I simply continue the roll to the right I was gonna use for the High Yo Yo and perform a barrell roll around to a lag pursuit position on the bandit again.

He has lost energy and I have conserved it while maintaining a rear quarter position.

Other uses for the lag roll are on defense when a bandit overshoots to the belly side. A nose high barrell roll will take you from excess lead to lag.

It is also useful to clear a bandit chasing a friend who is basically line abreast.

A friend in line abreast is also the easiest way to visualize a lag roll.

Two planes in line abreast are in excess lead pursuit. A barrell roll towards your wingman ending on his 6 is a simple lag displacement roll. The roll displaces your flight path horizontally to align it with your wingman, converting you to a trail formation.

If there is a bandit chasing your wingman and he is abeam this is the easiest maneuver to clear him.

Lag rolls are extremely effective in the arena because most online pilots don't have the SA to think three dimensionally and the lag roll maneuvers through all three dimensions.

They are difficult to master because they require proper timing and the ability to track the bandit throughout the maneuver. A barrell roll isnt a lag roll unless you are performing it in relation to the bandit.

Ideally, you want to place the lift vector on the bandit and hold it there through most of the roll or the bandit will be able to defeat it. Keeping sight of the enemy is crucial.

[TequilaChaser]

Originally posted by Gumbeau

Ideally, you want to place the lift vector on the bandit and hold it there through most of the roll or the bandit will be able to defeat it. Keeping sight of the enemy is crucial.

Gumbeau ( Twinboom? )

pretty good examples , except for that last part, placing the lift vector  "on" the bandit will leave you pure or possibly even still leading, I would suggest placing the lift vector slightly behind the tail of the opponent if not right on his tail......

remember the lift vector is that invisible line that runs from the seat of the cockpit straight up your back thru the top of your head and out the canopy to infinium.......if it was placed on the bandit you would still be positioning for pure or lead......

Flight controls & Lift Vector



Aces High Trainers Helpsite


hope this helps


edit: I reread it, you said hold it there for most of the roll,  you know how to fly them, I just making it a bit clearer for the newcomers. for others when people are talking about Lag, Pure, & Lead they are talking about Lag Pursuit, Pure Pursuit, & Lead Pursuit. You can also read about these subjects at the above linked Trainers Website for an indepth study.   ~S~   Gum

[Gumbeau]

Actually when I fly the maneuver the lift vector is in constant transition from a position in front of the bandit through him to behind as the lag roll causes the overshoot.

Its not really manuevering the lift vector from in front to behind. It is a natural result of the maneuver.

Good catch on my error of omission in the description.

In any case a film with narration would serve as a much better demonstration.

I read my own descriptions and realize no one could be reasonably expected to visualize it unless they knew exactly what is was in the first place.

[Saxman]

The lag roll  to drop on a bandit trailing a friendly con either abeam of me is one of my favorite maneuvers. Most guys are so fixated on the guy they're running down they don't see you dropping in behind them until it's too late.

[manurin]

Excellent explainations!!  

 I always try to keep those technics in my mind while flying, and already noticed that it brings good results, even if, of course, putting it into practice requires a perfect timing, and good SA.

and yes keeping track of the bandit all the time seems to be the key, but hell that's hard!!


have a good day!

[Hazard69]

Originally posted by Saxman:
The lag roll to drop on a bandit trailing a friendly con either abeam of me is one of my favorite maneuvers. Most guys are so fixated on the guy they're running down they don't see you dropping in behind them until it's too late.
 

Aha! So that's where they all come from......

Had it happen so often, nme in sight, quick check six, no ones there, look ahead reacquire target, then tlang, tlang, crack, snap, boom.........wing and / or tail gone (i fly 38s mostly) and as im falling down in my spiral of death I see this con flying right through where I was.......


Checking low 3 and 9 is hard in a P38.

[EsX_Raptor]

Originally posted by Hazard69
Checking low 3 and 9 is hard in a P38

*thinks*

[WMDnow]

Ah, my good buddy gets his bad habit of hating P38s and how he always gets killed by them... < Im not the owner, just he HATES P38.