Author Topic: Skin taken out of game...  (Read 1525 times)

Offline Larry

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Skin taken out of game...
« on: May 20, 2007, 01:33:20 AM »
The LeLv 34 109G2 was taken out of the game in the latest patch. I would like to know why. Is it because Kanttori's and my skin were both MT-201? They may be the same plane but are different paint sheames. I sent an Email to skuzzy a few days ago and still havent got a reply. Is it a new rule for skining that planes that look the same or the same planes with different paint jobs are just deleted out of the game without telling the guy who spent hours of his time trying to make the game better? I made that skin for me to fly in. I have another 109G2 skin but I made it for a squadie and liked the LeLv34 one better. Its not like there are no spots for the 109G2 there are only 8. I take time out of my life to make these skins and dont like how my work is thrown out like its not good enough.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2007, 01:35:41 AM by Larry »
Once known as ''TrueKill''.
JG 54 "Grünherz"
July '18 KOTH Winner


Offline Kweassa

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Skin taken out of game...
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2007, 09:55:07 AM »
Actually, from the very start of this skinning business in AH, HTC did announce to everyone that when a same scheme of a same bird has been submitted they will use the one they think looks better. And in the case of skins already submitted and in use, if another skin of the same scheme has been submitted which they think looks better, then they will remove the old one in exchange for the new, and they do not notify everyone of the changes. This has been made clear.

 In most cases, skinners consciously try to disclose information on what they are working on (that's why they announce their skins on this BBS in the first place), so they can all try and avoid the 'competitiveness' of their work. But in some cases, some people feel that a particular scheme they are also fond of, might be misrepresented or too poor in quality, and are often compelled to create a new one for HTC to the better of all AH players.

 Especially after the community has grown much larger in size, there are skinners practically everywhere who submit their works. As a matter of fact most skinners who aren't from the West, or use English as their natural language, or do not use the forums much, act independantly in skinning game objects and they don't really try to steer clear of what has been already skinned.

 ...

 So while it is a rare thing to happen Larrie, it is not an unexpected thing to happen. HTC will use whatever is better. As having skinned quite many planes in the roster myself I fully sympathize how you feel, but while everyone does try hard, still the end result is someone may be better, and someone may be poorer. HTC has chosen quality as their criteria, and as long as it being so all we can do is accept the fact that someone has done a better job, and they rightfully deserve a place in the skin choices rather than myself.


 I'd feel a bit sour if any of my Ki84s or 190s or whatnot, has been replaced by another skin, but still, if it is indeed better than mine, one can only humbly abdicate their position. It's not a matter of who does it first, but a matter of who can do it better. If someone's up to the challenge, and thinks they can do a better job on something I've already done, then a better quality skin is for the good of every HTC gamer - they deserve a shot.

 There may be always someone better than you, who can do a better work. Or even, some other circumstances might come where your own work may be discareded for various reasons. Roughly about half of my works in the game have been discarded after the remodelling of the planes. In one case I've submitted a certain 190 scheme at nearly the same time as another skinner. In my own point of view, mine looks a lot better than his, but HTC chose the work of that guy, and not mine. These things happen, and while it is bitter to feel that you've lost the competition, it is something you live with, not complain about.

 I guess, Larrie, its just one of those things what our dads might say to us;

 "Take it like a man, and try do a better job next time."
« Last Edit: May 20, 2007, 10:01:31 AM by Kweassa »

Offline Fencer51

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Skin taken out of game...
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2007, 12:58:42 PM »
One of my 109G6s was deleted in the patch at the begining of the month.  It was a mistake and has since been restored.  You might want to check that this was not the case.

But yes, they are going to run with the better plane if two of the same plane are submitted.
Fencer
The names of the irrelevant have been changed to protect their irrelevance.
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Offline Larry

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Skin taken out of game...
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2007, 08:24:01 PM »
There are at lease one skin that I know of that two skiners have made and they are both in the game. Other skiners take up half the slots with skins that look the same and the only thing different is the side number. Even I have done two Ar234s that are the same plane but different camo. Why is it that my 109G2 is the only one that I know of being put in the game then taken out a few weeks later. Our MT-201 skins look nothing alike, and are different schemes. His may be "better" but it shouldnt matter because they look nothing alike.


Fencer I emailed them about 5 days ago asking about it. Since I havent got a responce I posted it here.
Once known as ''TrueKill''.
JG 54 "Grünherz"
July '18 KOTH Winner


Offline Citabria

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Skin taken out of game...
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2007, 09:33:24 PM »
heh check out the p40E's
some of those skins took my p40E skin and made it darker changed the noseart and submitted it even though it was the same skin haha.

where doed that fit into the world of duplicate skins? :)
Fester was my in game name until September 2013

Offline kanttori

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Skin taken out of game...
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2007, 01:45:08 PM »
This is TrueKill's MT-201:



And this is the same individual fighter from me:



I informed that I am working with this one on last october and I also released here pictures from that skin. But there was a half year pause when they (HTC) didn't released skins.

I have also read those same arguments from somewhere from which Kweassa wrote. I think it is just as he wrote and it is up to HTC what skins they are releasing.

TrueKill, there are only that ONE Finnish historical painting scheme to that individual MT-201 fighter. I have a photo where it was just arrived to Finland and it has not the tactical "white 1" on it's nose. It was painted there very soon after this photo (the other Finnish signs has just painted over it):



I used that photograph when painting the left side of the fuselage. I have also a very good colour profile from artist Pentti Manninen, but I can't show it here because of the copyrights.

I have picked all my Finnish Bf 109's colours mostly from his pictures and also from some other sources, for ex. from many different German RLM colour charts. There are any RIGHT colours, because anybody knows nowadays which were the accurate German RLM colours. They didn't left any paint pots to us after the war... :)

Here are couple of those colour variations:



Most of our 109 G2's were painted with those three RLM colours, which are also named as:

RLM 74 GRÜNGRAU / GREY-GREEN  
RLM 75 GRAUVIOLETT / GREY-VIOLET
RLM 76 LICHTBLAU / LICHT BLUE

I have a very small violet tone with my RLM 75 and the dark RLM 74 is a mean value from all those different colour examples and other sources.

Your skin is very good work TrueKill, but I must say that I have never seen those green and yellow colours which you use with your MT-201 in any Finnish Bf 109 G's. What was your source or preference material?

You can imagine that I am very pedantic with these Finnish skins and also WMaker has whipped me very hard when I have worked with them! :D
« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 01:48:49 PM by kanttori »
Lentorykmentti 3 - Finnish Aces High Virtual Flight Regiment

Offline Larry

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Skin taken out of game...
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2007, 08:08:33 PM »
Once known as ''TrueKill''.
JG 54 "Grünherz"
July '18 KOTH Winner


Offline Fencer51

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Skin taken out of game...
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2007, 09:00:39 PM »
Larry, nothing against your skins at all, but that site is not a good reference for a sole or final source.  Its good for an idea to maybe point you in a general direction, but what is posted there can be of way off historically.
Fencer
The names of the irrelevant have been changed to protect their irrelevance.
The names of the innocent and the guilty have not been changed.
As for the innocent, everyone needs to know they are innocent –
As for the guilty… they can suck it.

Offline BlauK

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Skin taken out of game...
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2007, 03:20:56 AM »
Larry,
I assume you had used the 1st awful greenish scan (from that russian page) for your MT-201 skin. There seem to be 2 others which have better colors.
However, it seems that you had also overlooked quite many details, like the swastika-roundel proportions, letter sizes etc. The god is in the details u know ;)

That particular plane is kind of the "personal plane" of mine.... me being the CO of the virtual LLv34 = LeLv34 = HLeLv34. So I am happy that Kanttori has put as much effort to that skin as he has. It is a pity you ended up working on a same plane.

One good tip (IMHO) is to involve other people in one's skinning process, like Kanttori does. He shows his skins under work and asks for feed back several times before finally submitting the final work to HTC. Several eyes always pick up possible faults much easir than the one single pair ;)


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Offline kanttori

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Skin taken out of game...
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2007, 03:36:23 AM »
Ok, now I understand TK/Larry. This is what you have used as reference and the colours are very distorted:



And this is Pentti Manninen's colour profile (I remove it very soon from here):



I have that profile in a book, too. Nowadays I always try to find the reference pictures from the books because of colours. Scanning the picture always distort the colors. Also the lower scanned picture has not completely right colors, but they are very close.

I also try to find as much source photos and profiles as possible from books, internet and from my firends. Never trust only one picture when you are skinning a historical plane!

Larry, if you are interested in spite of this skinning the finnish WW II aircrafts, just ask me or WMaker and we post you all the photos and profiles we have! Pentti Manninen is a real specialist with Finnish camouflage paintings and also with the technical details: panel lines and echnical  drawnings. I trust his pictures more than the Holy Bible. ;)

P.S. I am going to do some more Finnish Bf 109 G2 and G6 skins and also German JG5 skins (Bf 109 F4, G2 and G6). I am informing from them later on the other thread.
Lentorykmentti 3 - Finnish Aces High Virtual Flight Regiment