Author Topic: Eric Hartmann and the G14 (Read 3553 times)

Wizkid · « **Reply #15 on:** June 03, 2007, 03:46:15 AM »

In the post war "new" German Air Force
Col. Erich Hartmann
did not command a squadron but a whole wing, the Jagdgeschwader 71 "Richthofen", JG71R (i.a. consisting of two fighter squadrons, 711 and 712, at that time).

These were the aircraft of JG71R in the 60ies at Ahlhorn airbase, nothern Germany
Canadair Sabre Mk.6:

The markings on this particular aircraft, the JA-112 was common in the 1960s. "J" indicated 7th letter in the aplphabet, ommitting A and I and the "A" the 1. So you had the 12th aircraft of 1 squadron 112 of the 71 wing. The Tuli markings were Hartmann´s personal touch. He acted against all sorts of regulations doing so.

@ Treize96

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... He had to wait until he commanded an F-86 squadron to get to experience jet flying ...

Negative, in 1956, when the new Armed Forces of Germany were still at the drawing board, he underwent intensive jet training in the USofA before he became Commander of JG71R. During that training he broke all US-Jet Training Command Air to Air gunnery records.

PS.: During a "Tigermeet"
at Ahlhorn airbase, to which all NATO-squadrons were invited, which had a "Tiger" in the squadron crest, all the visiting aircraft had the "JG71R"-Tulip Markings the next morning after the beer call.

Fencer51 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 03, 2007, 08:17:13 AM »

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Originally posted by Geary420
Its super sexy, but I don't think ive ever seen an actuall pic of it, just profiles and artwork.

EDIT - What is that hideous thing above? Is that the P39?

BTW that is his G6.

Fencer51 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 03, 2007, 06:36:43 PM »

No weathering or wear and tear as of yet.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #18 on:** June 03, 2007, 07:26:41 PM »

I still sure wish HTC would fix the overbulbus gun hubs in front of the canopy.
They are just a hair larger height wise then they should be

killnu · « **Reply #19 on:** June 03, 2007, 08:44:10 PM »

red heart? or not on that one?

hammer · « **Reply #20 on:** June 03, 2007, 10:03:23 PM »

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Originally posted by Fencer51
BTW that is his G6.

The profile itself is of a G14. Note the taller tail.

Also, while I've seen multiple profiles (not pictures) of Hartmann's G14 from various sources, none have been in the green / brown camo and they also show them with the number 1 vs the chevrons. What source did that come from? I do have 1 source which shows a K4 with chevrons in the Green / Gray camo. It is a speculative scheme based only on Hartmann's statement that he flew a K4.

Regards,

Hammer

Treize69 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 03, 2007, 11:48:14 PM »

Thats a late model G6. If it was a G14 the antenna wire would connect directly to the fuselage behind the canopy and it woul have an RDF loop.

Serenity · « **Reply #22 on:** June 03, 2007, 11:55:51 PM »

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Originally posted by Treize69
Thats a late model G6. If it was a G14 the antenna wire would connect directly to the fuselage behind the canopy and it woul have an RDF loop.

Edit: Ive seen Bf-109 G-14s where the wire connects directly to the fuselage, but ive also seen Bf-109 G-14s where there is a 'pole' (For lack of a better word) connects the two. Just one site that displays both is the following: link

Guppy35 · « **Reply #23 on:** June 03, 2007, 11:58:10 PM »

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Originally posted by Fencer51
BTW that is his G6.

Luftwaffe Fighter Aircraft in Profile by Sundin and Bergstrom ID's that bird as a G14/AM

There are also profiles of two of Hartmann's G-6s in the book

Fianna · « **Reply #24 on:** June 04, 2007, 12:46:16 AM »

That's ****ing awesome that he painted his sabres with the black tulip.

Fencer51 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 04, 2007, 04:32:50 AM »

That may be a G14 in the profile, but that paint scheme is the one he had on his G6 when he flew as Staffelkaiptan of 4/JG2 in November 1944. It is the same one as shown Page 43 of "Jagdgeschwader 52 - The Experten" by Weal

And KillnU I have not done any detailing until the "Luftwaffe Experts" sign off on the basic plane/camo layout.

Fencer51 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 04, 2007, 04:35:21 AM »

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Originally posted by hammer
The profile itself is of a G14. Note the taller tail.

Also, while I've seen multiple profiles (not pictures) of Hartmann's G14 from various sources, none have been in the green / brown camo and they also show them with the number 1 vs the chevrons. What source did that come from? I do have 1 source which shows a K4 with chevrons in the Green / Gray camo. It is a speculative scheme based only on Hartmann's statement that he flew a K4.

Regards,

Hammer

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Osprey Aviation Elite Units #15
"Jagdgeschwader 52 - The Experten" by John Weal

It has a cover painting, which I am not going to post here, that shows him purportedly in a G14 on his final flight.

[/b]

Everything I can find has that profile above coded "White 1" as a G6. That is why I am going with the later schemed plane which a purported expert on the Luftwaffe as identified as a G14 he flew.

Fencer51 · « **Reply #27 on:** June 04, 2007, 04:45:39 AM »

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Originally posted by Guppy35
Luftwaffe Fighter Aircraft in Profile by Sundin and Bergstrom ID's that bird as a G14/AM

There are also profiles of two of Hartmann's G-6s in the book

Three sources I have identify it as a G6 in late 1944.

Geary420 · « **Reply #28 on:** June 04, 2007, 05:59:41 AM »

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Originally posted by Fencer51
but that paint scheme is the one he had on his G6 when he flew as Staffelkaiptan of 4/JG2 in November 1944. It is the same one as shown Page 43 of "Jagdgeschwader 52 - The Experten" by Weal

Is there any chance of you or someone else doing it? It's too good to not be in the game.

Fencer51 · « **Reply #29 on:** June 13, 2007, 06:08:52 PM »

FWIW this skin is not going to be finished and submitted. I cannot find any reference other than the original source that he flew the aircraft depicted.

I might have a lead on a photo of him in a G14 with a black tulip nose, but not the brown and green skin depicted above.