Author Topic: Comrade Clinton  (Read 1384 times)

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2007, 07:05:51 PM »
Ummm, are you serious?

Free and Anti-trust don't belong together in the same sentence.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2007, 07:08:49 PM »
Speaking of Teddy Roosevelt

Sound familiour?

"Corporate expenditures for political purposes, and especially such expenditures by public service corporations, have supplied one of the principal sources of corruption in our political affairs."


Kinda jumping around a bit but

"Now, this means that our government, national and state, must be freed from the sinister influence or control of special interests. Exactly as the special interests of cotton and slavery threatened our political integrity before the Civil War, so now the great special business interests too often control and corrupt the men and methods of government for their own profit. We must drive the special interests out of politics. That is one of our tasks to-day. Every special interest is entitled to justice -- full, fair, and complete, -- and, now, mind you, if there were any attempt by mob violence to plunder and work harm to the special interest, whatever it may be, that I most dislike, and the wealthy man, whomsoever he may be, for whom I have the greatest contempt, I would fight for him, and you would if you were worth your salt. He should have justice. For every special interest is entitled to justice, but not one is entitled to a vote in Congress, to a voice on the bench, or to representation in any public office. The Constitution guarantees protection to property, and we must make that promise good. But it does not give the right of suffrage to any corporation.  "

The entire speach is a really interesting peice of work.
Its almost eery the comparatives that can be made today


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Offline Odee

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« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2007, 07:13:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by OdinGrunherze
I'm glad, that I'm not the only one who notices these things....

OG
ditto... head :D
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Offline Dadano

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« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2007, 07:26:34 PM »
Quote
Liberals and socialists like Hilary feel that certain people's slices of the pie should be made smaller, so that other's slices can be made larger. Me, I figure we pay the REALLY smart people more so they can make the pie bigger for all of us.

Don't forget Einstein.
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2007, 07:29:54 PM »
I don't care who it is, if they advocate TAKING money/profits from the wealthy, they are wrong.

And NO. I'm NOT wealthy. Not even close. But taking what is not yours is wrong, whether you do it with a gun or a law book.
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Offline Eagler

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« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2007, 07:30:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dadano
Don't forget Einstein.


Why Socialism?
by Albert Einstein

This essay was originally published in the first issue of Monthly Review (May 1949).


It's been proven not to work since then ...
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Offline RedTop

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« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2007, 07:37:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
Until they live in a 1000 sqft house on $1500.00 to $2000.00 a month they don't have a leg to stand on as far as distributing other peoples money is concerned. :rolleyes:


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Offline Dadano

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« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2007, 07:40:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler

It's been proven not to work since then ...

Whoops!
Dano
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Offline Charon

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« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2007, 08:02:59 PM »
Quote
Ummm, are you serious?

Free and Anti-trust don't belong together in the same sentence.


In the real world, unrestricted capitalism eliminates a free market. Market leaders, once a certain scale is reached, can easily use noncompetitive market pressure to eliminate your "better mousetrap." My Acme Mousetrap may be out of date, overpriced and have poor quality, but since I was able to dominate 60 percent of the market share by being first to market with a better product in days past (followed by unrestricted mergers and acquisitions). I now have enormous power in the retail channel. Through a closed-door deal with my only major competitor Axxis mousetraps (with 30 percent of the market) we have decided to divide up the market to our "fair" benefit and set mutually beneficial, but noncompetitive artificial prices for our mousetraps. You are an irritation to both of us, but fortunately we can easily make you go away.

So, I lean on my retail partners not to carry your better mousetrap or I will punish them. Perhaps I threaten to offer special deals to competitors unless they refuse to sell your mousetrap. Or perhaps exclude them from my profitable door hinge business, which would lose them $millions. Perhaps the fact that my conglomerate also controls 75 percent of the trucking industry as well as the mousetrap industry allows me to charge you 3 times the shipping rate for your mousetraps, or exclude your business from some regions.

A free market is not "free" if I can exclude you from the market artificially (relative to the basic tenets of free market capitalism).

Charon

storch

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« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2007, 08:24:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Charon
In the real world, unrestricted capitalism eliminates a free market. Market leaders, once a certain scale is reached, can easily use noncompetitive market pressure to eliminate your "better mousetrap." My Acme Mousetrap may be out of date, overpriced and have poor quality, but since I was able to dominate 60 percent of the market share by being first to market with a better product in days past (followed by unrestricted mergers and acquisitions). I now have enormous power in the retail channel. Through a closed-door deal with my only major competitor Axxis mousetraps (with 30 percent of the market) we have decided to divide up the market to our "fair" benefit and set mutually beneficial, but noncompetitive artificial prices for our mousetraps. You are an irritation to both of us, but fortunately we can easily make you go away.

So, I lean on my retail partners not to carry your better mousetrap or I will punish them. Perhaps I threaten to offer special deals to competitors unless they refuse to sell your mousetrap. Or perhaps exclude them from my profitable door hinge business, which would lose them $millions. Perhaps the fact that my conglomerate also controls 75 percent of the trucking industry as well as the mousetrap industry allows me to charge you 3 times the shipping rate for your mousetraps, or exclude your business from some regions.

A free market is not "free" if I can exclude you from the market artificially (relative to the basic tenets of free market capitalism).

Charon
read henry m flagler's (the mastermind behind standard oil) biography IIRC titled the robber barons.  while they did drive out competitors most of the principals of the companies they gobbled up became far wealthier with their standard oil stocks than would have ever become otherwise.  the market has a way of regulating itself.  all the feds ever do is gum up the works.  anything the government puts it's fingers in it messes up.

the government can't even secure our border which is the most important function of any government yet they want to run industry.  the only thing government is good for is taking money from the governed and mis spending it.

I'm not an anarchist and I do believe in paying taxes for the basic services the legitimate government should be concerned with but government should have absolutely no say in the affairs of the privately held companies that operate within it's borders.

the roosevelts were communists as all liberal N/Easterners tend to be.

Offline eagl

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« Reply #40 on: May 30, 2007, 09:03:52 PM »
Yea, I saw that news clip.  Basically said she wants to destroy the concept of capitalism and the free market, in favor of handouts and universal... well, everything.

Anybody but Hillary in 2008.
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Offline Charon

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« Reply #41 on: May 30, 2007, 09:44:19 PM »
Quote
read henry m flagler's (the mastermind behind standard oil) biography IIRC titled the robber barons. while they did drive out competitors most of the principals of the companies they gobbled up became far wealthier with their standard oil stocks than would have ever become otherwise. the market has a way of regulating itself. all the feds ever do is gum up the works. anything the government puts it's fingers in it messes up.


The level of innovation and market expansion we saw in the 1920s onward was night and day compared to the closed market under "The Standard." That breakup set the industry ahead a decade or more and made motor fuels and automotive transportation bloom in combination with the mechanization of post WW1 America and the Model T. This is an area I have researched using original materials from the period, and summaries from those heavily involved in the process and who covered the industry on a daily basis from a time when your could see reports on whale oil consumption and when gasoline was primarily just another industrial solvent. Kerosene for lamps was the hot product in the petroleum market as late as 1910.

The rapid expansion of gasoline after the breakup into new markets, the rapid proliferation of retail operations, the dramatic price competition (which really smacked the industry hard after an initial super expansion) all benefited the American consumer and allowed hundreds of entrepreneurs to enter the market, especially in the Jobber class. Many are still operating today on their 4th generation or so.

Too much regulation is certainly a bad thing, but no regulation doesn't serve entrepreneurs, innovators or customers. We have now, to some extent, reformed much of Standard Oil and the Seven Sisters are now down to four but that is still enough to allow a competitive environment in the market. I'm a bit more worried about defense, since any weapons program now only has 1-2 companies competing for the business.

Charon

Offline sgt203

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« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2007, 10:11:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
So you all don't see this as a problem?


NO...

You dont like your salary as an employee... Get a better education, do better work, work your way up and you too can become a CEO....

But I guess the liberal answer would be the Robin Hood Theory.. Lets take  part of his salary (which we think is too much) and spread it arounf to the poor surfs that work for him.........

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2007, 09:15:00 PM »
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Originally posted by sgt203
But I guess the liberal answer would be the Robin Hood Theory..  


Robin Hood did not steal from the rich and give to the poor.  He retrieved the tax money that the Sherrif and the Prince took from the peasants and gave it back to the peasants.  

Robin Hood was a tax cutter.
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Offline crockett

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« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2007, 09:35:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I think her husband made like 40 million since he left office and he still wants 10k a year from the poor people to fund his health care even tho he is covered by his wife.

lazs


Yea but nothing like Dick Chaney whom made what like 50 million while he was in office.. I wonder how much George Bush Sr. has made since he left office.
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