Rubber Bullits

[easymo]

 No I aint got um. They went away with AOL . I just wanted to point out something to the people that whine about the 30MM and the 1C. HT put a hit counter in my game for awhile. 3 hits in a 300 yard, or so, range produced a kill, with any cannon armed plane. The 30,s seem to have more drop so you are probably hitting with MG. you can test this for yourself. Slow film down to crawl with cannon only. If you see 3 hit sprites, at range, And the plane kept going, You might have a problem.

 The reason the spit and the 1C are so deadly, is the T.O.T. They get those hits in a blink.

[Ripsnort]

Easy, did you change  your online  handle  again?  No score in tour 4 for  you.

[NineZ]

Yep, you got that one right Easy.  All ya gotta do is switch to zoom and watch those cannon rounds drop.  Ya gotta kind of lob those slow mommas in there, or get in close.  

If anyone thinks that a 30mm cannon round is going to maintain a flat high velocity trajectory, he hasnt done his homework.

JagdNine

[Badger]

You know something easymo, that kind of explains something I've often wondered about those "rubber bullet" threads.  I've had some suspicions that the guys who thought they weren't getting a kill with a few rounds (ie: 30mm = 1 ping) were actually getting it, but not seeing the graphics feedback of the kill, before they continue to see their rounds (hit sprites) hitting the plane.  In other words, if they had stopped shooting sooner, then they would discover they had enough hits to get the one ping 30mm kill, instead of wasting the extra ammo.

I had that experience once, simply by accident.  I was chasing a p51 in a 109g10 (30mm) and I got down to 350-450 yards.  My finger accidentally slipped on my cheapo joystick and I fire only one round (heard only one bang from sound card), which impacted the p51.  I really didn't want to fire that soon as I wasn't ready, but to by amazement after a pause, his wing fell off and he exploded.  So, if I had fired more than one round, the rest would have had hit sprites but been wasted.

I'm not sure if I've explained this right, but I hope everyone gets my drift.

Regards,
Badger


[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 05-15-2000).]

[easymo]

 Rip. Yes. HT forgot to turn off the counter. And though it did not give me any kind of an edge. I didnt want anything that might look like I had one.

 BTW. Two hits uselly result in a ditch. If you cant get that third one. IMHO you dont deserve the kill.

[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 05-15-2000).]

[Hristo]

Please read my whine post about 30 mm more carefully, easymo.

You will note that:

- I fired 30 mm only

- I hit p 51 10 times (with 30 mm only)

- It lost only a wing and crashed to the ground (it was no net lag issue, right wing came off after 4 hits - the rest of hits were rubber bullets)


Now, if there wasn't any damage, I would blame netlag. His or my FE probably did not recieve damage information.

But P 51 lost a wing. So, netlag is excluded. It is rubber bullets most likely, or P 51 damage model.

[easymo]

 I watched your film 3 times. It looked like a normal kill to me. You just put more ammo into the 51 than was needed. It is my habit to light um up with short bursts. Than wait a seconed to see if they blow. It did look like lag effect to me.
 Im not trying to make an arguement. 190 is one of my favorites also. IMO the wing would have came off anyway. If you have given it a moment.

 Back in my aol days. it was not uncommon to HO a con. turn all the way around and be chaseing him, when the hits reached me and my wing tip came off. Lag does some very strange things.
[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 05-15-2000).]

[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 05-15-2000).]

[Lephturn]

What if...

You put 10 shells into his left wing for example.  Now, the first 30mm lets say vaporized that wing, but it takes a full second for that damage to get to his FE, for his wing to fall off, and for you to see it.  In the mean time you put 9 more shells into the same part... but by the time those hits "registered" that part was already missing.  What happens to the other 9 shells?  On your FE I'll bet it looks like you poured 10 shots into his wing.  On his FE the first round blew his wing off and the other 9 hit air.  Although damage did occur to the other guy, net lag can still have an effect here.  Somebody correct me if I'm way off base here, but I can understand how this might happen.  Due to the latency of the Internet, it could take up to 2 full seconds for damage to another plane to be visible on your FE.  So, if you pour a PILE of ammo into one part of another plane, you don't see the damage right away.  Chances are the first 3 rounds did him in, but you have to wait a second or two for that to "register" if you are counting.  It's a fact of life in Internet gaming, not much can be done about it.

The best way to test damage is to do it in the TA, and one shell at a time.  One ping, wait a couple of seconds, next ping, wait a couple of seconds, etc.  That's the only way to get an accurate "count" that I can see.  Otherwise you can get "hits" on a section of the other guy's plane that might not be there anymore when the damage actually registers on his FE.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
 http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/
   

"MY P-47 is a pretty good ship
And she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip
I was thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip
Always got me through so far
Well they can ship me all over this great big world
But I'll never find nothing like my North End girl
I'm taking her home with me one day, sir
Soon as we win this war"
 - Steve Earl

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 05-15-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 05-15-2000).]

[Hristo]

Good explanation, Lephturn.

However, I wanted those stabs falling off ! Right there ! But no, they stuck with the plane until it hit the ground   And 5+ seconds have passed between stab hits and the crash.

Right horizontal stab was first thing to get hit there. Instantly after, the right wing gets pinged. Some more hits on other parts of plane, then again hits in right wing. And another hit in right horizontal stab. What happens ? Wing falls, stab still stays attached. Hmmmm^2 !

Left wing did not lose even a flap or aileron  

[Citabria]

I think that explains a lot of this rubber bullets stuff indeed.

I always noticed that I can kill a target with a controlled 2 second burst from my p38 on target but if there is a net toejam storm the enemy plane will somtimes stay intact for what seems forever in a fight then just suddenly fall to pieces.

I've seen this with the 30mm too...
I only fired 1 shell and waited, the tail of the p51 fell off a few seconds later.

[bloom25]

Last night I had a sortie where I put 200+ rds of 50cal at very close range into a spitfire.  He kept flying, so I broke off.  While checking my 6 too see if he was following me, all of the sudden both his wings came off.  My guess was netlag on his end which kept him from seeing the hits until much later.  This is rare, but it can happen.  Maybe this accounts for your problem Hristo?



------------------
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[StSanta]

If it was the problem, the stabs would come off seconds later. They didn't, so i doubt this was the problem.

------------------
StSanta
II/JG2