Author Topic: For all you rabid environmentalists (Read 4596 times)

bustr · « **Reply #90 on:** June 14, 2007, 07:39:38 PM »

Moray,

What you are describing about the oceans absorbing co2 and the subsiquent raising of water temp sounds like one of the precursor indicators to the earths iceage cycle starting into a 15,000 year freeze. So what happened in the last global ocean ecosystem collapse besides lots of fresh water killing the gulf stream and the planet freezing? We then had an iceage???? Species came and went....we acended...and here we are. So are you suggesting we need to avert the next natural iceage? By the way it's just been released that our fertilizer pollution of nitrogen seems to cause trees to absorb higher amounts of atmospheric co2.

Maybe I'll do my part this weekend at the local gun range and release some nitrogen into the atmosphere. Smokeless powders are nitrogen base propellants.....

<----- I'm very sure Laz knows his science on this subject......

Curval · « **Reply #91 on:** June 14, 2007, 07:44:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by bustr
Maybe I'll do my part this weekend at the local gun range and release some nitrogen into the atmosphere. Smokeless powders are nitrogen base propellants..... <----- I'm very sure Laz knows his science on this subject......

lol

So many of you guys are such sheep. Lazs likes guns = good, so I'll back him up on every argument, even though he has about as much scientific knowledge as a rock.

bustr · « **Reply #92 on:** June 14, 2007, 08:07:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Curval
lol

So many of you guys are such sheep. Lazs likes guns = good, so I'll back him up on every argument, even though he has about as much scientific knowledge as a rock.

Naw Curval I'm just rooting for the Iceage to get here. Then you'll have to were pants like the rest of us neadertals or freeze your skinny knees off.....

L'EMMERDEUR · « **Reply #93 on:** June 14, 2007, 10:35:20 PM »

Curval, don't be insulting rocks like that.

Angus · « **Reply #94 on:** June 15, 2007, 04:22:29 AM »

Hehe, well Lazs basically has the opinion of not doing anything about anything, so that is a bit like a ... rock.

Curval · « **Reply #95 on:** June 15, 2007, 05:14:35 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by bustr
Naw Curval I'm just rooting for the Iceage to get here. Then you'll have to were pants like the rest of us neadertals or freeze your skinny knees off.....

Not sure what a neadertal is....is that what you become when you get an internet crush on another man due to his love of guns?

...and stop checking out my knees.

Angus · « **Reply #96 on:** June 15, 2007, 06:18:34 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Curval
Not sure what a neadertal is....is that what you become when you get an internet crush on another man due to his love of guns?

...and stop checking out my knees.

Neanderthaler is my household name. But originally they come from Dusseldorf, - or nearby

lazs2 · « **Reply #97 on:** June 15, 2007, 07:58:30 AM »

moray... very passionate.. good for you. now you are a climate scientist... not so good. I am in a science field too... to an extent. just as we all are.. to an extent.

What you say is true about the mechanism of the ocean.. so far as we know.. Heating it does cause it to not be able to absorb co2 and to possibly release methane.

What you fail to say is that..

ITS THE SUN STUPID

the sun is heating the ocean. I'll ask you the same questions none of your fellow handwringers here will answer...

If we all slit our throats this afternoon.. how much would that change the temp of the planet in 100 years?

And.. what are the measures short of that (be specific) that we need to take in order to "do something" meaningful to stop mans contribution to this global warming trend..

Also.. do you really believe that the suns activity is not cyclical and will go into a lesser activity cycle at some point soon anyway?

I have heard from ferndale/beetle/lambchop and he says we can let people who want to produce and use biofuel... that sounds ok to me.. he says we can build nuke plants... that also sounds good to me.

I will also say that letting the market produce and sell solar systems for homes (the price is getting attractive) is inevitable and good.

So lets hear it moray and all you hand wringers... name some things you would force people to do "just in case" Tell us how much more you are willing for products to cost and just how many more agencies you are willing to fund and just how much government interferance in your... er..everyone elses lives..you are willing to put up with.

NAME SOME THINGS YOU WOULD FORCE US TO DO.

lazs

AKH · « **Reply #98 on:** June 15, 2007, 08:34:18 AM »

Some uncertainty remains about the role of natural variations in causing climate change. Solar variability certainly plays a minor role, but it looks like only a quarter of the recent variations can be attributed to the Sun. At most.

Stanford Solar Center

ITS NOT THE SUN STUPID

lazs2 · « **Reply #99 on:** June 15, 2007, 09:00:15 AM »

ahhh so a quarter of the recent warming is the sun. by the new estimates? Well thats better than last years "the sun has nothing to do with it" eh?

The rest is then... what? all man made? if the sun heats the ocean a degree or so then it releases (or can't hold as much) co2 and well..

it is not just sunspots.. sunspots are an indicator of suns activity and solar winds.

Again.. you are trying to murk up the situation... You first said (pretty sure it was you) that solar brightness had not changed implying that there was no effect from the sun... as did all the "scientists" last year.

And still.. you won't say how much is increased solar winds/activity and how much is man made in some form.

If you are going to say that sunspots have increased only 25% and therefore the sun is only responsible for 25% then where does the other 75% come from? are you trying to say that 75% of the warming trend we see is man made co2?

If so.. this is a first.. we have pinned down a scientist who is giving us a number... (like the 20ft rise in sea level in the next 10 years)

If we all slit our throats this afternoon... global warming would decrease by 75%??? is that what you are saying?

Is it just suv's or is it because the scientists don't have enough grant money or is it simply that we have too much freedom and need more government control...

please... save us. and if that isn't enough.... what about those pesky metiorites and comets? surely only karl marx can save us from them?

lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #100 on:** June 15, 2007, 09:08:48 AM »

also... look at the chart... sunspots (an INDICATOR of suns activity) go up and down.. the tempreture FOLLOWS the indicator...

The co2 is a pretty much steady climb... yet... there are periods where the co2 is climbing and yet the planet cools.

How do you explain this if the sun is only 25% of the motivator? surely... rising co2 would not allow a pissant 25% to sun spot INDICATOR of suns activity to twist and distort a chart that should have temp as steady a climb as co2 if.... if co2 were as big a factor as you believe... not to mention mans small contribution to that.

Your chart proves my point not yours. co2 lags... sun leads. co2 can do whatever it wants and yet we can have decades of cooler temps. It also shows that sun activity is cyclical.

your chart sure seems to point out that co2 is just a follower and that...

ITS THE SUN STUPID

lazs

straffo · « **Reply #101 on:** June 15, 2007, 09:13:19 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
...
The co2 is a pretty much steady climb... yet... there are periods where the co2 is climbing and yet the planet cools....

Are you sure you can read a curve ?

PS : may I remember you that C02 a contrario to the sun don't produce energy ?

PS2 : it's clear reading the curve that you need sun + CO2 to increase temperature , CO2 increase sun effect.

PS3 : look at the sun in 1975 and 1870 it's the same amount of energy, if you were right the final temperature should be the same.
But it's not ,and the only different factor is C02.

What do you answer to this ?

Angus · « **Reply #102 on:** June 15, 2007, 11:21:47 AM »

Lazs, - please try to replace "It's the sun, stupid" with " "CO2 increases sun effect".
(TY Straffo)

An increase in solar activity makes greenhouse gases effect into a much more serious concern, and since there is nothing mankind can do about the sun effect, the voila, there is a job on the other end.

Same goes with the polar caps, - them disappearing will trap much more sunlight.

I am curious to know your responce, but I bet on the repetition of "The Sun, Stupid", and there is no point in doing anything.

lazs2 · « **Reply #103 on:** June 15, 2007, 02:34:13 PM »

the polar ice caps are receeding? you mean we have less ice now than... than when? I believe we have more ice... it is thicker in the south these last few decades is it not?

Ok.. look at the chart.. it is missleading... intentionaly so imo... but.. it shows that sunspots (an INDICATOR of suns activity) lead changes in temp. We know that always in the past, as now, co2 lags temp. the reason being that warmer temps release more co2 from the ocean..and.. warmer oceans can't hold as much co2.

now look at the chart.. the co2 is steadily rising but... the solar activity and the temp are not.. they are dancing partners with sun spots (an INDICATOR of suns activity) leading the dance.

There are many periods where the co2 continues to rise but temp drops... to expand that chart or, zoom in on the end of it, would show that we have had a lowering of temp and of sun spot activity (an INDICATOR of suns activity)

I keep saying INDICATOR for a reason.. scientists are convinced that sunspot activity is a good indicator of suns activity and solar winds... it is by no means a strength indicator. I am saying that even with just being an INDICATOR it is amazing how well they correlate to each other.. temp and sun spots.

Much better than temp and co2.

I am saying that we don't know enough about the sun and solar winds etc.. and that we ought to be looking at it instead of wasting all our time on the red herring of co2... man made or otherwise.. we already know that as the sun heats the oceans they release co2... in vast amounts.. amounts that make mans contribution seem beyond puny.

If co2 is causing global warming then how can co2 steadily rise but us have years at a time of cooler global temps? How would you explain that?

The suns activity will slow... we will cool and the oceans will cool and absorb more co2.. sun spot activity (an INDICATOR of the suns activity) will lessen and temp will follow... trending downward... co2 will continue to rise (it lags remember) and then... as the oceans cool... the co2 will start to drop..

in the end...

ITS THE SUN STUPID

lazs

straffo · « **Reply #104 on:** June 15, 2007, 04:02:12 PM »

Get a brain (a real one) and come back.

Plus a bit of honesty if you don't mind.