Legal White Male Steals From Me & Walks

[Chairboy]

Originally posted by Seagoon
Just one question related to your original post, though. I'm wondering what you wanted to happen - people to stop being so concerned about illegal immigration because all races commit theft and fraud or for some sort of change in the legal system in your area or something else I'm missing completely?

- SEAGOON

That may be a bit of a straw man argument.  RPM seems to have noticed, as I have, that recently the trend on this board has been to lay blame for most domestic problems at the feet of illegal immigrants.  

This type of overgeneralization does little to solve the problem, but there has been a tacit acceptance here of exactly that.  Of interest, the only folks getting dinged here are the ones who say "maybe not all crime is from illegal immigrants".  If this is a dichotomy with which you're comfortable, Seagoon, then I encourage you to take a step back and re-examine the situation.  

Historically, almost every time a small group is singled out and blamed for all of society's problems by a larger group, terrible things eventually happen.

[rpm]

Seagoon,

I understand the trials and tribulations of dealing with the public. I (my store that I am entrusted and responsable for) get pilfered daily. It's part of business, life goes on. It's the apparent total lack of concern by law enforcement to punish, of all things, a thief.

Had the same person been committing a consentual crime that caused no one any harm he would have been taken very seriously and placed in jail. I used the joint scenario to illustrate my point. True, in some states they will write you a citation and let you go. Here, in my little corner of paradise they aren't as openminded about social reform. It's law enforcement on parade along with photos in the local paper. Priorities...

I thought the title and the first line of this post were self explanitory, but maybe the irony was lost somewhere along the way. Immigration is the current "axis of evil" on political display. Them danged 'meskins are the problem I tell ya! It's the fear flavor of the week for this election.

I grew up in the same town I live in today. It's a lot like the town in the movie Hud, small west texas hickville. There have always been a large group of illegal aliens working here. The "Westside" of town on the "other side of the tracks" is and always has been populated by these hispanics. I grew up, went to school and worked with hispanics.

They work the rock quarries, farms, dairys, and brick plant. Now most of them are working in oil field and construction. I watch them wire most of their paychecks to family in Mexico and Central America. They are very religious and polite. On the otherhand, there is a portion of their culture that is just as poorly behaved and educated as white trash. I have plenty of those too. The hispanics are just like us, good mixed with the bad.

I have mixed feelings on immigration. I don't want an open border, that's insane. In today's climate we need border security. What most don't understand is our southern border is not our major security problem. I'd like to see us button up and baton down our ports and borders. Expand the Coast Guard and Border Patrol. Give them the men and tools they need to do the job.

I have never had a problem with a person trying to better themselves or their family. If they are being a productive member of society minding their own business and are causing no problems other than an immigration violation, give them an opportunity to become citizens. They have shown a willingness to perform jobs that need to be done and nobody wants to do them. A society of Mike Rowes so to speak.

If they are not being a productive member of society and are breaking laws in addition to immigration. Revoke any opportunity for citizenship and expel them. With the increased border security I mentioned, hopefully there will be less of a chance he will walk into the US again. If we had spent 10% of what we have spent in Iraq "making America safer" beefing up our ports and borders and actually "made America safer" we wouldn't be having this discussion about immigration.

Once we have secure borders we can control immigration. Until then we have to make lemonade.

[Seagoon]

Hello Chair,

Originally posted by Chairboy
That may be a bit of a straw man argument.  RPM seems to have noticed, as I have, that recently the trend on this board has been to lay blame for most domestic problems at the feet of illegal immigrants.  

This type of overgeneralization does little to solve the problem, but there has been a tacit acceptance here of exactly that.  Of interest, the only folks getting dinged here are the ones who say "maybe not all crime is from illegal immigrants".  If this is a dichotomy with which you're comfortable, Seagoon, then I encourage you to take a step back and re-examine the situation.  

Historically, almost every time a small group is singled out and blamed for all of society's problems by a larger group, terrible things eventually happen.

Actually I wasn't trying to make a straw man argument, just trying to figure out what RPM was actually pressing for rather than making assumptions either way.

Personally, as an immigrant myself and a pastor with a Mexican American ruling elder and who is quite happy to see other Hispanic families join our congregation, I'm not inclined to make over-generalizations about Mexican/Central American illegal immigration and crime.

It seems to me that there are two arguments arguments against our overly porous southern border that are essentially unanswerable:

1) Our social welfare net is not able to cope with the demands placed on it by unrestricted illegal immigration: We have decided as a society that we want to be able to provide a variety of benefits including medical care, food,  education, and even a subsistence income to those who otherwise would not have them. These services are paid for by the revenues from taxes levied on the income of legal resident individuals, families,  and corporations. Currently the demands on these benefits (particularly in terms of medical care) made by illegal immigrants are greater than can be feasibly sustained without major increases in taxation. In several cities hospitals and in particular, emergency rooms, have already been forced to shut down thus impoverishing the entire community. One also has to remember that you tend to get more of what you pay for. Either we will have a comprehensive social welfare net or unrestricted immigration, but we cannot have both without bankrupting the economy. Mexico does not provide anywhere close to the level of benefits to its own citizens that they can freely obtain by crossing the border so part of the incentive for crossing the border is to obtain those benefits.

2) The fact that militant Islam is currently waging a Jihad against the nation: The various Muslim brotherhood affiliated Mujaheedin are very aware of the fact that if they cannot enter the country legally, they can cross the southern border illegally fairly easily. This is also the second most logical access point for any potential WMDs. Historically, most countries have realized that border control in a time of war is an absolute necessity (Hadrian's wall, and the Great Wall of China are enduring monuments to the fact this isn't a new idea), we seem however not to be grasping that simple concept. I have no doubt that we will suddenly get very serious about it when a terror cell competent enough not to include FBI informants in their membership actually pulls off a successful attack, but that is rather like beefing up lifeboat regulations after the Titanic sinks.

- SEAGOON