Author Topic: The surge has failed...already.  (Read 2749 times)

Offline Viking

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The surge has failed...already.
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2007, 06:46:09 PM »
So what you're saying is that things are actually going well in Iraq and all this bad news, even from their own newspaper is just the result of the US Armed Forces’ complete and utter ineptitude at media relations?

Offline tedrbr

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« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2007, 06:54:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
So what you're saying is that things are actually going well in Iraq and all this bad news, even from their own newspaper is just the result of the US Armed Forces’ complete and utter ineptitude at media relations?


No, I'm saying there is plenty of good AND bad to go around.  That all you will hear in the mainstream media outlets is the bad, because that is what sells newspapers and get's advert dollars for tv.  

Also, many in politics want to stress as much bad as they can to play up to American frustration and lost patience while gearing up for the 2008 political farce.  The media itself has it's own agenda, both political, and playing up to American perception, even while it forms much of that perception.  

The media, politics, and public perception are a negative feedback loop.  Which is also why the good news "fluff" piece is at the end of the new programs or buried deep in the paper.

That any headway in that messed up situation will take the commitment of many years, much money, and many lives to try and make the best of a bad situation.  A situation that was created in no small part from failed policies on the part of the American Administration, Congress, and Pentagon leadership.  

Also, I recognize that Iraq is a "no-win" situation at this point.  All we can accomplish for the foreseeable future is the best of the many possible "bad" outcomes.  And to bail altogether risks the worse of those bad alternatives.

And finally, yes, the Armed Forces are really really bad at the media stuff in these circumstances..... lot's of great video when the JDAM's are going through the roofs of buildings and breaking stuff..... but nation building is not what they do, and its hard to promote that well.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2007, 06:56:36 PM by tedrbr »

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2007, 09:31:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
The US Armed Forces does have its own press corps, do they not? Have these good news been made public through say the Stars and Stripes?




How strange then that their headlines are not "Tribal leaders help US forces to stop violence” or anything similar. Instead their headlines are:

Forces in Iraq on alert after bombers destroy minarets of *****e shrine

Gates to press NATO on sending more troops to Afghanistan

Would-be car bomber treated for wounds, interrogated

Iraq report: Attacks against troops down, but casualties up

One pot plant could mean seven years in prison

Security increased on USFJ bases, but no reason is given


While none of them are particularly gloomy they do not exactly convey the spirit of optimism shown by Gunslinger. Why is that?


The Stars and Stripes gets the majority of it's stories from AP. Why do you think it presents a picture tilted to the gloomy? I think you want to believe the worst about America and Americans. Your prerogative of course but I wouldn't expect too many here to agree with you.
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Offline L'EMMERDEUR

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The surge has failed...already.
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2007, 10:40:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 68ZooM
Well its went down alittle, according to this poll



lol zomg
Gonna have to start calling them 20-percenters now I guess.

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2007, 01:28:00 AM »
so How does the approval rating of Congress compare to the President?
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Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2007, 02:59:20 AM »
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Originally posted by Sandman
Is 31% mainstream?

According to the latest poll, 67% disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling the situation in Iraq.


According to this Bush has an overall 29% approval rating, 6 points better than Congress' 23%...
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Offline Eagler

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« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2007, 05:35:20 AM »
five more soldiers died yesterday in Iraq .. 4 of them in combat ..

and the democrats secretly cheer ...
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Offline straffo

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« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2007, 07:02:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
five more soldiers died yesterday in Iraq .. 4 of them in combat ..

and the democrats secretly cheer ...



I wonder why you can write this in this place without being at risk to be banned.

But it's how the O'club became...  
The republibots can have their free (hate) speech when the others are banned.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2007, 07:42:54 AM »
so lemur...  bush's approval rating is based only on the war?

What should we do?  should we get all our troops out on the afternoon flight to new york city?  

So long as the troops feel that we should be there and that they are doing some good I will support them.

The rest of your opinions are meaningless.

lazs

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2007, 07:54:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 68ZooM
Well its went down alittle, according to this poll



Looks like he's even with Congress, you know, the new congress that was going to save the day? :rofl :rofl

http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=27589

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2007, 07:57:24 AM »
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
According to this Bush has an overall 29% approval rating, 6 points better than Congress' 23%...
Wow, its dropped 6 points since May for Congress. :eek:

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2007, 08:08:14 AM »
Does the low approval rating for congress mean that more than 70% support staying in the war or that more than 70% think a democrat controlled congress is a bad thing?

lazs

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2007, 08:24:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
I wonder why you can write this in this place without being at risk to be banned.

But it's how the O'club became...  
The republibots can have their free (hate) speech when the others are banned.



You assume that what he wrote isn't true. Maybe it is, maybe it is not. It is however undeniable that the Democrats gleefully attack the military at every opportunity, and that they use every setback as a chance to further their political agenda.

As far as it goes, you are as guilty as anyone, with your accusations of hate, and your name calling (republibots?). So perhaps you might want to consider how the other side sees you, before you go too far off on the "hate speech" tangent.

Several facts cannot be disputed.

A war cannot be run by committee.

No war can be successfully prosecuted any where by any nation when half of that nation uses every setback as a chance to trumpet their agenda, proclaim complete failure, and demand surrender.

Actions such as those taken by many Democrats as well as much of the media  are an unacceptable attack from home on the morale and well being of the troops, as well as an aid and comfort to the enemy.

The war has not gone as well as anyone would have liked, maybe not as well as it could have, but probably no better than could actually have been expected.

The strategy of the Bush administration has not been perfect, far from it, and could be improved greatly. The strategy of the Democrats, however, once the war didn't go perfect, has been non existent, other than the offer of a timetable for complete surrender.

The Democrats stand to benefit greatly from a failure in the war, and they know it. They appear to be determined to see it through to that end.
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Offline Shifty

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« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2007, 08:34:50 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
I think you want to believe the worst about America and Americans.


He seems to post only in threads where it offers him a chance to show his contempt for both. I wonder why people bother responding to him.

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Offline straffo

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« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2007, 09:36:27 AM »
Virgil ,I plead guilty of the use of republibot, but I (arrogantly) think the ones I picture this way deserve this description by their repetitive post I've seen  during the last years.

I find being zealot of one or the other party is not an excuse to such a behaviour.
I'm certainly biased but I think they have the benefit of a better tolerance than their left counterpart.

I'm sure some democrat family have lost family member during this war and I'm pretty certain they are not "secretly cheering".

Eagler post was yet another attempt at dehumanizing the people not sharing his view
It's a very old trick.




When I can't deny the potential benefit for the democrat ,and before we start ca chicken/egg discussion I shall remember you them democrat didn't start this war as the old adage say : you reap what you saw.

I'll end this later , I've to leave early.