bullets collision

[Movie]

Originally posted by NateWolf
I think there was a case in the Civil war where to bullets met perpendicularly and they made something like an X or something. Not sure if it was real or not.

most popular bullet used was the minie ball back then

[mtnman]

Originally posted by NateWolf
"I think there was a case in the Civil war where to bullets met perpendicularly and they made something like an X or something. Not sure if it was real or not. "

Sorry, I don't buy that.  If two objects hit each other in mid-air, in order for one to imbed into the other there are too many factors at play.  For starter's, one of those objects would need to be harder than the other, pointed, smaller than the one getting hit, and hit it just right, at just the right speed to penetrate, but not go through, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...

Projectiles in the civil war were not jacketed.  They were soft lead.  They were round-nosed, not pointed.  Even the Minie ball/bullet mentioned is not very pointed.  Regardless, it's made of soft lead.

If they did hit each other, they would cause mutual deflection and damage to each other.  If one was moving at 800 FPS, and the other was moving at 1200FPS, and they hit dead on the nose, it would be like one hit a brick wall at 2000FPS.  SPLAT! Any other angle would be less damaging, but result in more deflection.  

Remember that Civil War muzzle velocities were low compared to modern firearms as well.  2000FPS would be out of reach of nearly all Civil War weapons.  My 22-250 is firing at 4000FPS.  My .270 is about 3000FPS.

I do believe it is possible, if not likely to have projectiles hit in mid-air.  Finding them afterwards, and decifering the damage sustained from the hit would be tough, and up to a LOT of speculation, especially since the bullet would likely be further damaged during its abrupt meeting with terra firma, or what-have-you.

As an archery instructor teach kids how to shoot, I did see several freak occurances of arrows hitting/glancing off of each other in mid-air.  Very rare, and always gets a chuckle.  Arrows are much longer than bullets, so would be much more prone to collisions.  They were also fired at the same target, so that would help too.

MtnMan

[Murdr]

Originally posted by mtnman
Sorry, I don't buy that.  If two objects hit each other in mid-air, in order for one to imbed into the other there are too many factors at play.  For starter's, one of those objects would need to be harder than the other, pointed, smaller than the one getting hit, and hit it just right, at just the right speed to penetrate, but not go through,

Small point, but... Not nessacerly in regards to projectile hardness and shape.  Especially with a soft low melting tempature material like lead.  Lead is malleable enough to deform a great deal before fracturing, and in the process produce heat which will plasticize it even more.  With the right amount of energy release on impact they could very well fuse together.

[mtnman]

621.5 F

I've melted LOTS of lead, mostly over an old forge while making balls for my muzzleloading rifles, pistols, and muskets.

It may get softer before it melts, but it goes from a very hot solid to a liguid very quickly.  Once it liquifies, this theory is all over.  I suppose if you could control the impact temperature you MIGHT be able to get them to "weld" themselves together, and that weld might even be strong enough to hold as they tumble to the ground and bounce their way to a stop.

Maybe that is how planets grow?  Space rocks slamming together and fuzing instead of ricocheting off each other?  I guess I'd expect the moon to be a bit larger than it is, based on the visible signs of impact.

The bullets I've fired and recovered have never shown evidence of heat damage that would result in them sticking to something.  Not from the hot blast that launched them (good thing, or it might have fused the bullet to my barrel!, or the casing!, or the fabric patch!) nor from slamming into a large variety of targets.

I honestly think it has a LOT to do with the words spoken just before or just as the two bullets hit.  I sure wish I knew what those words are!  

Maybe- "Hocus-Pocus-ala-kazaam!"...

MtnMan

[Murdr]

Originally posted by mtnman
I honestly think it has a LOT to do with the words spoken just before or just as the two bullets hit.  I sure wish I knew what those words are!  

Maybe- "Hocus-Pocus-ala-kazaam!"...

MtnMan

lol

[mensa180]

Originally posted by mtnman
Originally posted by NateWolf
"I think there was a case in the Civil war where to bullets met perpendicularly and they made something like an X or something. Not sure if it was real or not. "

Sorry, I don't buy that.  If two objects hit each other in mid-air, in order for one to imbed into the other there are too many factors at play.  For starter's, one of those objects would need to be harder than the other, pointed, smaller than the one getting hit, and hit it just right, at just the right speed to penetrate, but not go through, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...

Projectiles in the civil war were not jacketed.  They were soft lead.  They were round-nosed, not pointed.  Even the Minie ball/bullet mentioned is not very pointed.  Regardless, it's made of soft lead.

If they did hit each other, they would cause mutual deflection and damage to each other.  If one was moving at 800 FPS, and the other was moving at 1200FPS, and they hit dead on the nose, it would be like one hit a brick wall at 2000FPS.  SPLAT! Any other angle would be less damaging, but result in more deflection.  

Remember that Civil War muzzle velocities were low compared to modern firearms as well.  2000FPS would be out of reach of nearly all Civil War weapons.  My 22-250 is firing at 4000FPS.  My .270 is about 3000FPS.

I do believe it is possible, if not likely to have projectiles hit in mid-air.  Finding them afterwards, and decifering the damage sustained from the hit would be tough, and up to a LOT of speculation, especially since the bullet would likely be further damaged during its abrupt meeting with terra firma, or what-have-you.

As an archery instructor teach kids how to shoot, I did see several freak occurances of arrows hitting/glancing off of each other in mid-air.  Very rare, and always gets a chuckle.  Arrows are much longer than bullets, so would be much more prone to collisions.  They were also fired at the same target, so that would help too.

MtnMan

I know for sure that bullets hitting each other in mid-air during the Civil War happened at least once.  My dad went metal detecting and found two fused together, they're either around in the basement somewhere, or with his ex wife.  

It seemed they hadn't hit head on, but one was at a slight angle, which made for a pretty cool effect.

[mtnman]

I don't doubt at all that bullets hit each other in mid-air occasionally.

I'm highly sceptical that they could/would stick together.

Did you actually see the ones you're referring to?  Did they still "look" like bullets?  Did they show the same amount of deformity?  Or were they still pretty "normal" looking, but stuck together?

Can you get a picture?

I've found bullets stuck together behind backstops at a rifle range.  They were extremely deformed, and were really only stuck together because of the way the lead had bent.

I would think it would be MUCH more likely to have two bullets stuck together for a reason OTHER than a mid-air collision.  

For example- bullets in the Civil War were carried wrapped in paper cartridges containing the ball/bullet, and the powder charge.  Having a quantity of these in your pouch, and then having them come in contact with a fire would cause them to flare, creating a lot of localized heat which could easily "weld" two bullets together.  These paper cartridges will not actually explode.  Picture an olde-time photographer's flash for the actual effect.

Another possibilty would be a corpse that burned.  If the bullets were exposed to prolonged heat they would melt like butter though.  Maybe the edge of the fire?  Igniting the paper cartridge?

A bullet hitting a supply of bullets could also lead to two being stuck together.

I'm not gonna believe this one until I see some proof.

Keep in mind my brother is an archaeologist.  He would be the first to tell you that finding two bullets stuck together 150 years after they were used is FAR from conclusive proof of them slamming together in mid-air and fusing together.  It's not even proof they ever left the ground.

MtnMan