Iwa Jima

[hubsonfire]

How did the name get changed in the first place? Regional dialects, clerical error, typo?

The name doesn't change a thing, except what appears on a map. History remains as it was.

[Bruv119]

Originally posted by Jonny boy 8
my great grandfather flew the cosairs in the pacific, between 1943 to the end of the war. with 11 kills.

p51srule:aok

Corsairs rule  too!  

[Rolex]

The kanji for island can be pronounced a few ways, like all kanji.

Iwo Shima (or Jima) - 硫黄島
Iwo Tou - 硫黄島

They are both the same kanji and mean the same thing - sulphur island.

All the natives were evacuated during the war and a Japanese (a major, I believe) mispronounced it as Iwo Jima from a map. Since none of the natives were around to correct him, the name stuck until the island returned to Japan and the pronunciation returned to Iwo Tou.

The change was never remotely related to nationalism or any other political reasoning. It is simply the reading of the kanji.

People outside Japan may be thrown into fits of apoplexy if they learned that the roman spelling is actually "Iou Tou."

[Murdr]

Originally posted by Guppy35
I often wondered what it was like for those guys who actually saw combat to act in movies that tried to portray it.  Big Red One was on the other night with Lee Marvin, and I thought about his time in combat with the Marines.  Must be really strange to pretend after that.

Christopher Lee who served with the SIS, silenced Peter Jackson abruptly while Jackson was trying to relate how he wanted him to play the death of Saruman scene with a dead serious comment along the lines of "I *know* what the sound a man makes when he is being stabbed to death"

[DAVENRINO]

Originally posted by Rolex
Actually, it was changed back in 1968, but a clerical error in 1982 changed it back to the jima pronunciation of the same kanji. Just like the Truk mispronunciation was corrected by the Federated States of Micronesia, as you said, davenrino.

The pronunciation was not changed as a "politically correct" measure. The events, island or history haven't changed. No one has to change their pronunciation of it for the time those events occurred. Iwo Jima was where the events occurred. Iwo Tou is how the same place was pronounced before and after the war.

I don't see many people trying to forget what happened there. There are a few right wing politicians, but that's about it. There is a normal sense of shame in losing, same as all people, right? Just because Japanese don't talk about it constantly, doesn't mean many are trying to forget. Life goes on. On the contrary, Japanese are very patient when 20 year-old American sailors or soldiers try to provoke an argument by trying to rub events that happened half a century, and a few generations ago, in their face. Neither had any hand in the cause or outcome of those events.

Rolex, I am in agreement with you.  But, WW2 history is, or at least was barely covered in many Japanese schools.  My wife is from Tokyo and she didn't even understand the significance of Iwo Jima.  I pointed Iwo out one day as we flew past and then had to explain what occurred there and why it was such an important battle.  Maybe history wasn't her favorite subject.  I have seen the Island from the air a hundred times and it still stirs something inside me (or maybe it was the airline food).

DJ229 - Air Mafia

[Mighty01]

I was not trying to take anything away from any nationality of people. both sides lost way to many of their young soldiers at this place. this is why I mentioned

that so many lost their lives fighting for and or defending

It is not a matter of rubbing something in one's eye, my object was more toward why all the time higherup political types try to change things, or names of events or places what have you, which eventually leads to history getting lost or readjusted for the future generations of our youth.
I can understand the orginial settlers and occupants of Iwo Tou wanting their Island named as it was originally.
As for the politically correct jab, it was nothing more than just that , a jab if you will. out of humor more than anything. that was why I spewed off about Jupiter getting hit by the big sheet of astroid acid consisting of window pane. As if 95% of the AH community could even understand what any of that stupid lil phrase even means.

my apology if I offended any person. that was not my intentions

Rolex: I find it down right shameful to hear of young US soldiers doing as you mentioned above

Japanese are very patient when 20 year-old American sailors or soldiers try to provoke an argument by trying to rub events that happened half a century, and a few generations ago, in their face. Neither had any hand in the cause or outcome of those events.

that in itself shows a little about how our children are brought up this days. A True servicemember from any nationality with any worthy amount fo discipline or respect would not even think about going there.



Mighty01

[Mighty01]

DJ,
out of curiosity, I wonder why Japan does not  as you mentioned

But, WW2 history is, or at least was barely covered in many Japanese schools

It is and was a part of their nations history, regardless of it being a good point or bad point in time.  Just as we have here in the States,  it is as if the new age of teaching shuns away from any bad occurances that happend in the past or never fully explains them

to me it is the same in the states here, where certian things that happened as we grew up and read in our history books do not even get a mention of in "today's History books" of our children. And if it is mentioned it is twisted and distorted from everything we were taught when we were in school.

I have always been one for learning and trying to understand history, or shall I say understand why things happen the way they did.  It can be a challenge when you have your 11 or 12 year old come home from school to be all excited and tell you about some point in history they learned about, to suddenly find out for example's sake, that  what you might of learned back in the 60's or 70's is 100% opposite of the same part of history in discussion with your child has just learnt from his or her teacher today.

who is right? who is wrong? who shall we say is the one misinformed? what do you say to your child to make it where you can keep them interested in the subject, and not put down their teachers, or make them  have to pick sides on who to believe.( all this is a hypothetical of course ) but something to speculate about.

I find nothing wrong and Iwo Jima returning to its rightful name of Iwo Tuo, as long as the Teachers and historians do not end up throwing away a valuable part of this worlds past history.

salute
Mighty01

[P47Gra]

WWII is a sensitive subject for both the Japanese and German people.  I have toured Europe and made stops at 2 Major Extermination Camps (Dacau and Auswitz sorry guys spelling is bad).  The German population was very polite to me when I asked for directions but they were reluctant to give me directions.  After finding a great bar to rest my feet I found a English speaking local.  I asked him why it was so hard to find these areas of history.  He told me that some of his countrymen are reluctant to show how brutal some of their fellow countrymen could do and that their country was lead by such a brutal leader.  As time goes on the age of the population involved in the war grows older the younger people are left with the question:  Do we grasp the history as a brutal learning experience or do we hide ourselves in that brutal history?  I believe it is the same with the Japanese people.

My Granddad was a Jug driver and he had a hard time going back with me and seeing most of the country.  It was an awesome experience to have him re tell his stories of missions and towns he literally pounded.  

WAR IS HELL!!! Men that say it is glamorous or with honor have never lived it!!!!

[jaxxo]

good post..and a good read..refreshing

[DAVENRINO]

Originally posted by P47Gra
WWII is a sensitive subject for both the Japanese and German people.  I have toured Europe and made stops at 2 Major Extermination Camps (Dacau and Auswitz sorry guys spelling is bad).  The German population was very polite to me when I asked for directions but they were reluctant to give me directions.  After finding a great bar to rest my feet I found a English speaking local.  I asked him why it was so hard to find these areas of history.  He told me that some of his countrymen are reluctant to show how brutal some of their fellow countrymen could do and that their country was lead by such a brutal leader.  As time goes on the age of the population involved in the war grows older the younger people are left with the question:  Do we grasp the history as a brutal learning experience or do we hide ourselves in that brutal history?  I believe it is the same with the Japanese people.

Anyone whom has visited the Arizona Memorial here knows what an emotional experience it is.  It is a very strange experience going there with your Japanese wife, her Mother and Aunt. They actually felt embarrassment  at the intro movie.  I haven't been to the memorial at Hiroshima, yet but plan to do so soon.  I am sure that the shoe will be on the other foot then.

Originally posted by P47Gra
My Granddad was a Jug driver and he had a hard time going back with me and seeing most of the country.  It was an awesome experience to have him re tell his stories of missions and towns he literally pounded.  

WAR IS HELL!!! Men that say it is glamorous or with honor have never lived it!!!!

I know how your grandfather felt when I made a couple trips to Hanoi. I flew down the coast past my former bases in Chu Lai and Da Nang.

DJ229

[Murdr]

Here's an old, somewhat related topic
Famous Folks and WW2

[ColKLink]

Andy rooney? the cat at the end of sixty minutes, great read.