Crakpot psychology

[Citabria]

Moot found a great article on the psychology of conspiracy crackpots hope he dosnt mind me reposting it here...

Originally posted by moot
Not directly related, but reading your conspiracy stuff made me curious about the specifics of crackpot psychology.  I didn't have time to really dig up much, but found this, and thought it was interesting.
 
http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=864

I think I agree with that article

I wouldn't worry too much about me turning into a conspiracy crackpot.
I have the attention span of a gnat and find it more enjoyable to explore multiple points of view of somthing than to cling to one view.

i would say this is a valid point of view and could explain why I am an agnostic and do not cling to one version of faith as the only true one.
I think humans by nature will distort reality for themselves and others as the article said to maintain normality and allow life to continue... normally. This is a valid and not undesirable thing up to a point and I like the way the declaration of independance says this...

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

our government is not at all reducing us to despotism but it may be endangering us if other countries decide to intervine drastically when our ambitions become to great.

and I have experienced true world crushing depression and can truely say that at this time in my life I find my existence a pleasant and happy one. I enjoy my normality and after the initial shock of seeing the crackpots viewpoint I do not really see their view which is distorted or the accepted view which is also distorted as a viable threat to my continued enjoyment of normal day to day life.

I hold no need to think that our dear government is our friend or our enemy as I feel the powers involved are greater than one person by a magnitude of millions. I voted for bush twice. the second time i voted against kerry and not for bush and thereby voted for bush by default because I thought kerry was worse than bush but bush sucked too.

but back to crakpot theories which they are rightly called..
what I think is neat is that if even a grain of the crackpot's views are true it makes the world we live in more interesting than it actually is in that we would have a modern day hitler overtaking a relatively young democratic country.

however I find this unlikely. Bush is a seemingly delusional moron who compares himself to winston churchill. the article could be applied to bush and his views on normality quite readily in that he thinks that although everyone hates him he will be appreciated in 20-30 years and thus this illusion helps maintain his ability to function in society.
but while bush is playing cowboy on his ranch and maintaining his normality he has subed out most of his presidential responsibilities and intelectual workload to dick cheney.

that is a bit worisome in that cheney has been showing blatant disregard for about everything that would stand in the way of increased executive power.

it is not a stretch of the imagination that our VP would easily convince our weakminded President that it is in our interest to engage in war in the middle east. I mean why not we need oil right? whoever controls the oil controls their own economic security.

I have attempted to look at this whole thing from a historical viewpoint of how such things happen in the past.

its not so much a matter of importance as a matter of being interesting in that this has all been done before and is recorded in history over and over and every time it happens people will continue to uphold their perception of normality as long as posible.

I personally do not care if bush/cheney decide to invade the whole middle east. I will continue to live my life with my day to day normality and I truely find it more high on my agenda to bone my wife as much as she will let me than to lose more than one nights sleep to the crackpot views on current events.

But I can not deny that I find it addictive to explore what would seem to be an objective reality of why things happen and why governments do what they do.

from what I have seen of both sides of this argument this is what I consider to be the most likely reality ...

9/11 was at best on the administrations affiliates and backers wish list and at worst on their to do list.

afganistan refused to allow a  oil pipeline through there country to be built to benefit US allies but was begining construction on one with ties to iran. the pipeline is now being planned by the new afghan government and its US backers.

The US wanted to wage war on Iraq. found a frivolous reason and went to war with iraq. The US decides by design not to use Bush the elders strategy of massive numbers but instaed uses minimal forces with maximum technology and blitzkreigs the entire country in a matter of weeks. however this shock and awe does not win the war for the US. Iraq degrades into a civil war. The fighting is constant and neighboring countries seem interested influencinig the events and course that the iraq war will take. Iran is often blamed for heavy influence in the fighting and procurment of weapons for the insurgents.

The president is "steadfast" in his comitment to Iraq and though it is not spoken of much most construction and rebuilding in iraq is for permenant US bases heavily fortified and defended.

that brings it up to the present day.

I don't find this view of reality dilusional. I think it is pretty objective and realistic. my view may be a small departure from normality in that I do not think our government always tells the truth about their intentions.

[Seagoon]

Fester,

As someone who worked as a contractor for government agencies inside the beltway, I am sometimes amazed at what people think the government has the ability to do, or how they believe that there really is the potential for any sort of pan-governmental massive conspiracy to work.

First the agencies I worked for are staffed with Government workers, they generally have two speeds, slow and stop and on their best days they are about as efficient and motivated as the guys who clean up the trash on the side of the highway (ok, maybe not that efficient). Also, from personal experience, I can tell you they are overwhelmingly liberal Democrats and openly despise the administration. This includes workers at the NSA, CIA, State Department, and Pentagon, and they wouldn't hesitate for a nanosecond to leak anything that could damage the administration to either the Washington Post or the NY Times. So while the political appointees may be Bush "cronies" generally every one working under them is not, and that includes upper level people. In our time in D.C. we met many of the Valerie Plame style politically motivated liberal civil servants who were there administration after administration, unlike the few "neo-con" appointees who will be flushed out of the town in '08.

By and large the only conservatives in D.C. are elected, appointed, staffers, or military - the actual civil servants who run the government and actually implement the policies are overwhelmingly liberal democrats and the only ongoing conspiracy that everyone in D.C. is involved in is the conspiracy to keep their jobs, spend their entire budget, resist any attempts to cut anything, and relentlessly grow the already bloated federal government year after year. If you want my opinion, that's the real threat to your liberty and your wallet, not a bungling and hamstrung administration with a little over a year left on the life clock.  

- SEAGOON

[Citabria]

well said seagoon.

like you observed the reality of government is much less interesting and mundane than all the fantastic outsider theories would hope for.

[FrodeMk3]

What you've said, Fester, pretty much sums up that All is seen in the eye of the beholder, but is interpreted in the mind.

Different people, with different aims, will pick the actions of the Presidents' that we've had, past and present, apart as to suit they're needs, and goals.

For example: I myself, work in organized labor( a union.) Union politics for the last God-only-knows how many decades, have devolved to support for the Democratic party, on the most part. Many people dislike The dem's for they're support of things like Gay rights/marriage, Gun control, They're stance on immigration, etc.

However, that is not true of everyone in one group, like the Union I belong to. Alot of those guys would vote Republican, simply because they don't like the core values of the Dem. party. However, for support of their one interest, Support of organized labor, the Davis-Bacon act, etc. they are willing to vote the Dem ticket, because standing on a street corner, holding a sign saying "I won't let you take my guns", "Joe-Joe lispy + Sammy limpwrist = Satan", won't pay the mortgage or car payment if they lose they're jobs.

Now, where I found this in context to your original post, is that alot of us like to think about the U.S. as a whole, when we think about current events today. However, It is not one country under god, Nor has it been for the last few decades. This country is slowly going secular, into smaller and more numerous special interest groups. It is, no matter what public talking heads say to the contrary, splitting along racial and ethnic lines. Along religous lines. Along economic lines.

You could take almost any Presidential admin. and find a side that loves or hates them.

It just depends upon which special interest group you happen to land in.

That said, Fester...If you look at all the "Crackpot" theories, you'll find that they are almost limitless, if you can stand on the outside, looking in.

[Dux]

Sorry Fester, I just deleted the original post because I thought I misunderstood your post... wasn't sure if you were saying that you had the attention span of a gnat, or the person in the article was saying that.

My contention is that if you are open to looking into a topic further than just lazily accepting someone else's pre-fabricated (and agenda-driven) answer, then your attention span is healthy and much better than an insect's.

[Citabria]

hey dux I deleted my post replying to your post after you deletd your post haha!

but what I was trying to say is I tend to get bored quickly and though I can get fired up over an issue that interests me I tend to find out everything I can about it, lose interest and move on to the next thing.

[Slash27]

Originally posted by Citabria
hey dux I deleted my post replying to your post after you deletd your post haha!

but what I was trying to say is I tend to get bored quickly and though I can get fired up over an issue that interests me I tend to find out everything I can about it, lose interest and move on to the next thing.

Try Sasquatch next.






its real....

[evenhaim]

wow some food for thought let it sink i will post my reply later on in the day


wow ok just reread it and i think in part some of the reaserach results were almost obvious like in reference to the eating disorder study the fact that the women with eating disorders rated themselves more realistically just proves the obvious. people with an over zealous outlook on life are doomed to failure once reality hits them in the form of death or disease. For me it is key to remain realistic in life otherwise were are overwhelmed by reality and life in general.  

I have actually forced myself more than once to attempt to keep a 100% positive outlook on everything but its worse then remaining realistic or even paranoid.  I have a friend who suffers from paranoid schizophrenia and although it is crippling and horrible disease he almost never is extremely surprised or hurt.

This is what i believe i happening today people are molding themselves into forms that suit them or the people around them just as you refered to the vp and pres of America.  people today must take on several forms a work loads.

not to sound like some "Crockpot" but i believe these theories might not be theories at all all be it exaggerated but they are in the right direction people need to open their eyes to the world around em and stop hiding from the obvious.

hopefully i got the right message:confused:

-adam aka freezman:aok