LOL who would have thought it.............

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by crockett
Funny it's was all about the fact that Clinton "lied" under oath when you Repubs were trying to lynch him.

Now soon as it's your own, who cares if they lie under oath right?

Tit for tat. Some tend to ignore their "own" side's transgressions all the while pointing at every opportunity, the "other" side's transgressions.

"Liberal" and "Conservative" alike.
Politician's are liars, those that make it to the highest level tend to lie the most.

[VOR]

Frode gets it.

[storch]

silat is a frothing at the mouth liberal.  go set up a pink tent and  camp out in crawford tx. to demonstrate your anger.

[x0847Marine]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Neverbeenamarine, your a complete left wing kook, aren't you?
I bet you think dem presidents were perfectly infallible.  Get a clue whackjob,  both sides are polluted w/ self serving bureautards.

"Dem" presidents are just as lame, born from the same steaming pile of feces as "Reps".. but that's not the point.

Scooter was convicted, period.. but hey, us commoners are the only ones who live under the rule of law, friends of the Bush get to walk.

How many lives as Scooter saved? I know guys with more than a few saves who have also risked their lives daily putting some seriously bad guys in prison and actually made a difference.. one went to prison for violating an illegal aliens civil rights, the other to jail for nailing a 16 year old who used her sisters ID. I didn't see Bush jump to their aid or call their sentences excessive.. maybe they should have helped start a BS war and licked planet Chenys toe-jam.. rather than save lives.

Bush thinks Federal sentence guidelines are "excessive" when they apply to his friends, but just fine for you and I.. the dude is a bad joke.

Then again Bushs approval is below freezing because he sucks at his job, he's already disliked by his own country and pretty much hated around the world... he can  pardon all his slimy friends and just laugh about it, he knows the loyal party clones who cant form an independent though to save their lives, will morph into attack parrots on his behalf.

[Speed55]

Originally posted by crockett
Btw since you want to bring Mark Rich into this.. maybe you should look into this..

[/i]

rich was mentioned in the link YOU provided, in a comparison to cox.  i was just pointing it out.

My personal view is i trust the republicans in power, much more than any democrat.  They both have their good guys, and their total loons, but from what i've seen, while the republicans may have a few bad apples on the tree, the democrats only have a few good ones on theres.

You probably feel the complete opposite.  

So me trying to convince you, or you trying to convince me that one side is better than the other, would be like either of us yelling at a brick wall.


 

[Shuckins]

If I follow the line of reasoning of some of you guys, you're stating that Libby was convicted therefore he must be guilty.

That conclusion only holds water if there had never been innocent people convicted of crimes within the continental United States.

Libby was the victim of a witch hunt.  While the purpose of the special prosecutors investigation was to determine who had leaked the information about Valerie Plame, that purpose was abandoned when it became apparent that no law had been broken.  

The investigations did reveal who had leaked the information:  Richard .... Armitage ... leaked ... the ... information ... about ... Plame.   NOT ... Libby.

A lot of wild, unsubstantiated accusations had been made against Karl Rove and Scooter Libby, who became the targets of a witch hunt merely because of their association with the office of the hated Dick Cheney.

So Libby was called to testify....over...and over...and over again.  And in the course of answering one of those dangerous "When did you stop beating your wife" questions, they caught him.

"I don't recall."

My friends, if I were a special prosecutor with a lot of time to prepare, and the power to keep you coming back to the dock to give testimony, over the course of a two year time period, and I could wear you down and exhaust you....I could catch you in a "lie."

[Thrawn]

Yes she was covert at the time, the CIA says so..

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/070529_Unclassified_Plame_employement.pdf


Yes Libby also leaked Plame.   He leaked it to Tim Russet and others, just not to Novak.

[Fury]

Most outgoing Presidents do a flurry of commutes and pardons before leaving office.  It's nothing new and crosses party lines.

Apparently Presidents have the legal power to commute or pardon anyone they want, for any reason at all (kind of like how they can fire AGs at will without having to give a reason).

Having the power doesn't excuse using it.  I'm a closet Bushboi, but I don't agree with the lame reasoning he gave.  IMHO no reason at all is better than the one he gave.  If he wants to save the fall guy, he might as well have just pardoned him.

I voted Clinton into office via Perot for one reason: Sr's 'read my lips'.  I'm probably going to end up voting Hillbama into office by voting for whatever Independant runs.

Junior should have commuted Paris Hilton...now that would have been fun and made just as much sense to me.

~Fury, average Joe lacking the finesse to get into OC political arguments.  All IMHO based on my news input from: CNN, FoxNews, MSNBC, The Daily Show, The Colbert Report, and The O' Club.

[edit: courtesy CNN because I'm too lazy to do my own research]
PARDONS AND COMMUTATIONS
George W. Bush (2001 - )
Pardons -- 13
Commutations -- 4

Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
Pardons -- 396
Commutations -- 61

George H.W. Bush (1989-1993)
Pardons -- 74
Commutations: 3

Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
Pardons -- 393
Commutations -- 13

Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
Pardons -- 534
Commutations -- 29

Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
Pardons -- 382
Commutations -- 22

Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
Pardons -- 863
Commutations -- 60

Lyndon Johnson (1963-1969)
Pardons -- 960
Commutations -- 226

John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
Pardons -- 472
Commutations -- 100

Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961)
Pardons -- 1,110
Commutations -- 47

Harry Truman (1945-1953)
Pardons -- 1,913
Commutations -- 118

[john9001]

" accordingly, the CIA lifted and rolled back Ms. Wilsons cover effective 1 January 2002 and declassified the fact of her CIA employment and cover status from that date forward"

so, the CIA retroactively changes her status at will from cover to non cover back to cover then back again to non cover?

[Yeager]

I guess "most americans" are upset about this.  I just cannot get excited about this whole valarie plame thing.........the whole thing reeks of politics.

[storch]

Originally posted by Yeager
I guess "most americans" are upset about this.  I just cannot get excited about this whole valarie plame thing.........the whole thing reeks of politics.

clearly

[crockett]

Originally posted by Fury
Most outgoing Presidents do a flurry of commutes and pardons before leaving office.  It's nothing new and crosses party lines.

Apparently Presidents have the legal power to commute or pardon anyone they want, for any reason at all (kind of like how they can fire AGs at will without having to give a reason).

Having the power doesn't excuse using it.  I'm a closet Bushboi, but I don't agree with the lame reasoning he gave.  IMHO no reason at all is better than the one he gave.  If he wants to save the fall guy, he might as well have just pardoned him.

I voted Clinton into office via Perot for one reason: Sr's 'read my lips'.  I'm probably going to end up voting Hillbama into office by voting for whatever Independant runs.

Junior should have commuted Paris Hilton...now that would have been fun and made just as much sense to me.

~Fury, average Joe lacking the finesse to get into OC political arguments.  All IMHO based on my news input from: CNN, FoxNews, MSNBC, The Daily Show, The Colbert Report, and The O' Club.

[edit: courtesy CNN because I'm too lazy to do my own research]
PARDONS AND COMMUTATIONS
George W. Bush (2001 - )
Pardons -- 13
Commutations -- 4

Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
Pardons -- 396
Commutations -- 61

George H.W. Bush (1989-1993)
Pardons -- 74
Commutations: 3

Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
Pardons -- 393
Commutations -- 13

Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
Pardons -- 534
Commutations -- 29

Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
Pardons -- 382
Commutations -- 22

Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
Pardons -- 863
Commutations -- 60

Lyndon Johnson (1963-1969)
Pardons -- 960
Commutations -- 226

John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
Pardons -- 472
Commutations -- 100

Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961)
Pardons -- 1,110
Commutations -- 47

Harry Truman (1945-1953)
Pardons -- 1,913
Commutations -- 118

Actually your numbers are way flawed..

I'm not going to say I supported some of Clinton  pardons.. But your list is extremely biased on it's number counts.

It has Clinton listed @ 396(?) as "last days" pardons.. When in fact the number was 140.. His total amount of pardons for both his terms was 396(??). (maybe see bottom)

Then your list has George H.W. Bush as only  12 pardons.. Which was in fact the amount of his "last days" pardons.

However his entire term George H.W. Bush had 75 full pardons in his 4 years.

I didn't get into any of the others , I just noticed the H.W. Bush and Clinton's numbers were way flawed.

As a side note to date.. George W. Bush has pardons 76 people. Many for the same thing Republicans bashed Clinton about.

Also I didn't feel like counting them.. but this is the full list of Bill Clinton's pardons for the entire time he was in office.. might be 396.. but seems like a lot less to me..

If I were to guess with out looking I'd say it's closer to 200.. (again that's a guess with out counting them)

http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/clintonpardon_grants.htm#april171995

[crockett]

Originally posted by Speed55
rich was mentioned in the link YOU provided, in a comparison to cox.  i was just pointing it out.

My personal view is i trust the republicans in power, much more than any democrat.  They both have their good guys, and their total loons, but from what i've seen, while the republicans may have a few bad apples on the tree, the democrats only have a few good ones on theres.

You probably feel the complete opposite.  

So me trying to convince you, or you trying to convince me that one side is better than the other, would be like either of us yelling at a brick wall.

It's your right to think what you like.. but I recall the biggest scandal under Clinton was him getting a BJ..

You didn't have half of his admin under investigation of fraud and everything else under the sun.

I'll agree both sides might have there good and their bad.. but I honestly don't see how you could sit there with a stright face and claim the Repubs are more on the up and up than Dems at this point.

Specially after all the crap this current crop has been busted with.

I'm still waiting for them to bing in the "honesty and integrity to the White House " that they promised..

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by john9001
" accordingly, the CIA lifted and rolled back Ms. Wilsons cover effective 1 January 2002 and declassified the fact of her CIA employment and cover status from that date forward"

so, the CIA retroactively changes her status at will from cover to non cover back to cover then back again to non cover?

That's not how I read it, but the point is that she was indeed covert....regardless of all the misinformation out there.

[Silat]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
How quickly and conveniently you forget about all of Clintons pardons.. want a refresher?

If you're a dem, lying is considered grade school stuff.  If you really want to earn dem respect, you have to shove  secret documents  down your pants and in your socks, then have the balls to call it, and I quote: "...an honest mistake."

Well there is no comparison to the people with the reins of power and a marc rich.
And you need to go back to your parties statements about hanging Clinton for lying. Like Fred the Fake Thompson.
A man with power lied to a fed prosecutor.