IL-2 pilots...

[simshell]

with its slow speed and when it has enough E it can turn some tight corners

I would say that the IL2 has to be one of the worst aircraft to head on

simply because your unlikely to kill it even with a good soild burst

when I used to play  I just stoped bothering with them

they can be hard to kill because of the low alt they normaly fly at and slow airspeed with all that armor to boot


most of the time i found people just wasted some much time and energy that they would get themself killed by more deadly threats in the area


its like going into the deep of the ocean with sharks allround and you want to go after the Sea Turtle

only to get picked off by a other shark wasting your time with the turtle

anyway its a awsome tank killer

but i never was anygood dealing with ostwinds in it

how do you all deal with those things in the IL2?

[Widewing]

Originally posted by simshell


but i never was any good dealing with ostwinds in it

how do you all deal with those things in the IL2?

You bomb them... Or, you double-team the Osti, one guy drawing fire while the other attacks from 180 degrees out.

Remember that the IL-2 can load two 250 kilo bombs. Climb out to 4,000 feet and roll in almost vertical. Many players fail to look straight up.

I was hit at 3k by a pray and spray Osti... Was also hit hit by a 75mm round from a Panzer. It wasn't aimed at me, it was just my bad luck to be at the wrong place at the wrong instant in time... Shxt happens...

My regards,

Widewing

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Widewing
I don't get roped because I will not follow anyone up without the E to get the job done. I'll just bear off and wait till he comes down, turn straight into him and let the guy consider the consequences of HOing an IL-2. The smart ones break off, the dumb ones die.

I have found that being extremely aggressive with enemy fighters is the best bet. If a fighter shows up, I head straight to him.

My regards,

Widewing

I'm confused.  You state specifically that you "force a HO" solution, but on the other hand "you are aggressive"?

[Lusche]

Originally posted by simshell

but i never was anygood dealing with ostwinds in it

how do you all deal with those things in the IL2?

Best way is to bomb them or use wingman tactics. Widewing already eleborated on this.
However, if you are alone, have no bombs and you HAVE to kill that Ostie, you may try this:

(citing myself from another thread in Help&Training Forum)

Originally posted by Lusche
If I have the time and situation permits, I will circle the Ostie just waiting for an opportunity. Usually the ostie driver won't just sit there and wait for you. Either he is already driving or he will start to. Watch his path. You can often tell when he is distracted, either by navigating around hills or trees, or when he ran into an obstacle. At this point, he can no longer steer his tank from the gunners position. Even if he is still moving and in the turret view, his fire will be impaired to some degree by his own movement.

As with other tanks, do a steep dive. This reduces the probability that your rounds will strike the turret side armor intead of goin into the open top, increases your own speed (=less time to being fired at) and finally the steeper angle is more difficult to track for the Ostwind's gunner.
My own "secret" trick is not to put my nose directly at the Ostwind while diving, I am rather diving onto an imaginary point about 10-50 ft away to the left or right. This way I don't fly directly into his line of fire. Basically giving the enemy gunner an additional angle to track, which is rather hard to detect for him. When I'm about 800 yds away, I kick in rudder to get my nose pointed at him and blaze away. (I have rudder pedals, so I can correct smoothly)

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
I'm confused.  You state specifically that you "force a HO" solution, but on the other hand "you are aggressive"?

It works this way: A high-flying fighter arrives. He's too high to engage so you wait for him to make the first move. Eventually he dives in on you. Some guys will wait and attempt to evade at the last minute. That works sometimes, and sometimes it doesn't.

I don't evade. I meet the attack head-on. If he doesn't bear off, he's dead. If he does bear off, I have gone a good way towards neutralizing his E advantage. If he zooms back up, he's already lost some of his potential energy as you cannot zoom quite as high as where you began. If he pulls hard to evade or to get angles, that's simply falling into the trap. Winning in the IL-2 is all about equalizing E states as much as possible. A majority of AH2 pilots can be played like a cheap piano, leading them to waste their E until they find themselves nearly Co-E with a good turning, armor plated monster with just about the most lethal guns in the plane set. It only takes one or two 23mm hits to ruin your day.

Remember if you're low and relatively slow, there's no shame in dealing with the BnZ attack by offering an HO. It's the only way you can go from totally defensive to offensive in an instant. You force the other guy to make a split second decision. Most will evade. Moreover, since you are invariably climbing into the attack, you can get around very fast and hope for the enemy to make a critical mistake. Your focus should be on killing the attacker, not avoiding him. When you do that, the other guy suddenly realizes that he's in a real fight and his mindset often changes from Attack to Survive. Once you get inside his head, you have gained much of what you need to prevail. The enemy is now uncertain of what to do next..

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Widewing
It works this way: A high-flying fighter arrives. He's too high to engage so you wait for him to make the first move. Eventually he dives in on you. Some guys will wait and attempt to evade at the last minute. That works sometimes, and sometimes it doesn't.

I don't evade. I meet the attack head-on. If he doesn't bear off, he's dead. If he does bear off, I have gone a good way towards neutralizing his E advantage. If he zooms back up, he's already lost some of his potential energy as you cannot zoom quite as high as where you began. If he pulls hard to evade or to get angles, that's simply falling into the trap. Winning in the IL-2 is all about equalizing E states as much as possible. A majority of AH2 pilots can be played like a cheap piano, leading them to waste their E until they find themselves nearly Co-E with a good turning, armor plated monster with just about the most lethal guns in the plane set. It only takes one or two 23mm hits to ruin your day.

Remember if you're low and relatively slow, there's no shame in dealing with the BnZ attack by offering an HO. It's the only way you can go from totally defensive to offensive in an instant. You force the other guy to make a split second decision. Most will evade. Moreover, since you are invariably climbing into the attack, you can get around very fast and hope for the enemy to make a critical mistake. Your focus should be on killing the attacker, not avoiding him. When you do that, the other guy suddenly realizes that he's in a real fight and his mindset often changes from Attack to Survive. Once you get inside his head, you have gained much of what you need to prevail. The enemy is now uncertain of what to do next..

This wall of text translates to HO'ing in an IL2.   You of all people should be experienced enough to NOT do it.    I'm disappointed in you WW.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
This wall of text translates to HO'ing in an IL2.   You of all people should be experienced enough to NOT do it.    I'm disappointed in you WW.

Come on Bud, you've been around long enough to know that the ideal counter to a BnZ attack is to turn into the attacker and force the situation into a tactical draw. This has been preached to fighter pilots since they first mounted forward firing guns on airplanes.

I'm not talking about a Co-alt merge here, I'm talking about some yutz thinking he can BnZ with impunity. He can't because I won't let him. If every time he dives in he's looking at a face full of cannons, he'll reconsider his options pronto.

My regards,

Widewing

[kilz]

why does someone always have to trash someone for his achivements. lord chaingun i dont care if you flew in F3 or F4 mode well done. just so i can make more people whine i am going to beat your score there and post it here just so i can see someone whine about it.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Widewing
Come on Bud, you've been around long enough to know that the ideal counter to a BnZ attack is to turn into the attacker and force the situation into a tactical draw. This has been preached to fighter pilots since they first mounted forward firing guns on airplanes.

I'm not talking about a Co-alt merge here, I'm talking about some yutz thinking he can BnZ with impunity. He can't because I won't let him. If every time he dives in he's looking at a face full of cannons, he'll reconsider his options pronto.

My regards,

Widewing

You were painting a different picture, and this one explains it better.   It just seemed like you were going for HO's.  

<> WW

[DoLbY]

I flew on on a Sweep Mission over an Bish base before and got about 4 kills before I got shot down

[Blimpy]

Widewing's tactics for dealing with fighters are totally legit, forcing the enemy to  make the choice of facing the guns head on or going around for another try (burning e all the way) is really the only option.  You cannot flee or climb or 'pull away' in an Il-2, you must be aggressive in keeping your cannons pointed at the target and using the tight turning of this slow bird to work its magic.  

There are of course other ways of snuffing fighters, letting them overshoot on that first pass and then nosing up to let the photon torpedos fly works well too, but nessesitates giving the enemy that 'noble' first pass.   The butterfly method of uber slow flight can frustrate attacking pilots into suicide it seems, and if you really, really want a challenge try downing an enemy plane from the gunners position.  I have never disintegrated an enemy plane  with the tail gun, but pilot wounds and lost oil, rad, will do as well.  Usually the gunner posistion is a suicide move, but when that 'clever' la-7 has latched on it's the only game in town.

[F1Bomber]

My Il2 score for last tour is the following.

Id:NoYou
68 kills, 28 deaths

Their isn't much more information to present, most of the information given on this thread is mostly all that you need to be good with the Il2. The only thing I found missing with most of the posts is the extremely long rang that 26mm guns reach out to.

For example, knowing that you've successfully made the enemy overshot or pull up. F3 check your six to make sure there isn't any high goons or enemy behind you near you 5 to 7 o'clock. Proceed to follow the enemy up into his vertical climb. You can effectively get hits out from 0 to 1.2-3k with the IL2 and this is how.

When the enemy is nearing the top of his loop, your IL2 will begging to start stalling, but the effects of the stall are not abrupt like many aircraft in the game, instead it hangs on its prop very nicely and this is where the tick comes into play. Nearing your stalling speed, and also the enemy stall speed hes should be about 800-900 from you now, start firing in his general direction, mainly aiming above his icon to allow the rounds to fall onto him.

This takes some practice but after some time it becomes very instinctive to know exactly what planes will stall out or pull up infront of you. You just simply pull up with them guns blazing, dont be too concerned about your ammo load to begin with, later on when you become effective at it, you can start saving ammo. Typically for most aircraft within the game except the F4u and the JUG you only need 1 or 2 pings on the aircraft to set it alight or to shot off its vertical stab.

Mainly I switched over to the Il2's within aces high a long time ago, partly because of the psychology of players and how they tulips risk and reward within the game. One of the big turning points is most players perceive a lower slower target as a lower risk and same reward than engaging a target that is a higher risk of outlying themselves and shooting them down at the same altitude.

One of the things that the IL2 does successfully to the psychology of players mind set, is it presents to them a low risk choice compared the available options. eg... Its an easy kill!! So you see this mentality online players to completely ignore LOGIC to take down this low risk aircraft within the game.

This risk/reward is the exact same reason why players gang up on other players, its a native survival instinct that is very hard to change. Odd I still find it funny, that even though this game has the lowest possible death penalty, players still insist in trying to remove all possible risk from the game.

Ever since switching over to the Il2, I've seen people come from 15K altitude down to the deck to kill me. I typically make them overshot and kill them before they have a chance to hit me with anything.

Although, I'm worried now, because of you guys. All your doing now is highlighting in most player minds that the Il2 is a higher risk aircraft to engage because of its armor and sher killing power of its guns.  This means that players online will consider the Il2 as a more threat and so will be more careful when engaging it and how. Damn, it was fun well it lasted.