Author Topic: LIVE EARTH CONCERTS...Post what you think is the best and worst  (Read 1474 times)

Offline Shuffler

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LIVE EARTH CONCERTS...Post what you think is the best and worst
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2007, 04:54:34 PM »
No decent band would be caught dead at this political rally. I have no interest in this at all....
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Offline Renotrigger

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For all you fools who want proof, there is an enviormental crisis.
« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2007, 07:17:52 PM »
Source: American Association For The Advancement Of Science
Date: February 23, 2001
 More on: Nature, Ecology, Sustainability, Ecosystems, Biodiversity, Ecology Research

AAAS Atlas Shows Human Impact On Environment
Science Daily — San Francisco, CA - 16 February 2001 - The AAAS announced today the publication of an atlas that graphically illustrates the link between population and the environment. It shows, says Paul Harrison, who wrote The AAAS Atlas of Population and Environment, that humanity is "overreaching itself ... threatening the key resources on which we depend."

The atlas demonstrates, "the cross connections between human and natural environmental factors in determining a particular outcome," says Peter H. Raven, Director of the Missouri Botanical Garden and President-elect of AAAS, in the book's forward.

The new atlas opens with an overview of the history of humanity's impact on the environment, the current status of the world's major ecosystems, consumption trends, and policy responses to the impact of the human presence on the environment.

The second part of the book comprises primarily graphics and maps that quantify the impact of humanity on natural resources, land use, the atmosphere, waste and chemicals, ecosystems, and biodiversity. Graphics illustrate, for example, the Earth's fresh water resources, as well as the world's top per-capita water consumers and how each nation allocates its water use. The last section of the atlas, produced by the World Wildlife Fund and The Nature Conservancy, consists of six case studies that examine the relationship between population and environment in areas of North and South America, Asia and Africa.

"We have found that people have a difficult time understanding how population dynamics affect the environment," says Richard W. Getzinger, director of the AAAS International Directorate, which produced the atlas. "So we began thinking about how we could use the latest technological tools in a way that can promote human welfare while providing a better understanding of the human impact on the environment."

The atlas, which is being published by the University of California Press, was produced with funding from the Summit Foundation, the Hewlett Foundation, and the Turner Foundation. Founded in 1848, AAAS is the world's largest federation of scientists with more than 138,000 individual members and 273 affiliated societies. The Association publishes the weekly, peer-reviewed journal Science and administers EurekAlert! (http://www.eurekalert.org) the online news service featuring the latest discoveries in science and technology.

Offline Renotrigger

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Here It's broken down for you.
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2007, 07:30:16 PM »
Human impact on the natural environment

State of ecosystems, habitats and species
In the past, human interaction with nature, although often having a disruptive effect on nature, often also enriched the quality and variety of the living world and its habitats - e.g. through the creation of artificial landscapes and soil cultivation by local farmers.

Today, however, human pressure on natural environments is greater than before in terms of magnitude and efficiency in disrupting nature and natural landscapes, most notably:

Intensive agriculture replacing traditional farming; this combined with the subsidies of industrial farming has had an enormous effect on western rural landscapes and continues to be a threat.
mass tourism affecting mountains and coasts.
the policies pursued in the industry, transport and energy sectors having a direct and damaging impact on the coasts, major rivers (dam construction and associated canal building) and mountain landscapes (main road networks).
the strong focus of forestry management on economic targets primarily causes the decline in biodiversity, soil erosion and other related effects.
The clearest manifestations of the degradation of the natural environment are:

Reduction and fragmentation of habitats and landscapes
The expansion of humans activities into the natural environment, manifested by urbanisation, recreation, industrialisation, and agriculture, results in increasing uniformity in landscapes and consequential reduction, disappearance, fragmentation or isolation of habitats and landscapes.
It is evident that the increasing exploitation of land for human use greatly reduces the area of each wildlife habitat as well as the total area surface throughout Europe. The consequences are:
A decreased species diversity, due to reduced habitable surface area which corresponds to a reduced "species carrying capacity".
The reduction of the size of habitats also reduces the genetic diversity of the species living there. Smaller habitats can only accommodate smaller populations, this results in an impoverished gene pool.
The reduction of genetic resources of a species diminishes its flexibility and evolutionary adaptability to changing situations. This has significant negative impacts on its survival.
The conditions under which the reduction of habitats often occur prevent living organisms making use of their normal ways to flee their threatened habitat. Those escape routes include migration to other habitats, adaption to the changing environment, or genetic interchange with populations in nearby habitats. Of particular concern is:
The abrupt nature of human intervention; human projects are planned and implemented on a much shorter time scale than natural processes;
Furthermore human intervention, such as the construction of buildings, motorways or railways results in the fragmentation of habitats, which strongly limits the possibility for contact or migration among them;
In extreme cases even the smallest, narrowest connections between habitats are broken off. Such isolation is catastrophic for life in the habitat fragments.
Loss of Species of Fauna and Flora
Although relatively few species of Europe's fauna and flora have actually become totally extinct during this century, the continent's biodiversity is affected by decreasing species numbers and the loss of habitats in many regions. Approximately 30 % of the vertebrates and 20 % of the higher plants are classified as "threatened". Threats are directly linked to the loss of habitats due to destruction, modification and fragmentation of ecosystems as well as from overuse of pesticides and herbicides, intensive farming methods, hunting and general human disturbance. The overall deterioration of Europe's air and water quality add to the detrimental influence.

Agriculture
Europe's natural environment is inextricably linked with agriculture and forestry. Since agriculture traditionally depends on sound environmental conditions, farmers have a special interest in the maintenance of natural resources and for centuries maintained a mosaic of landscapes which protected and enriched the natural environment.
As a result of needs for food production since the 1940s, policies have encouraged increased production through a variety of mechanisms, including price support, other subsidies and support for research and development. The success achieved in agricultural production has however entailed increased impact on the environment.
Modern agriculture is responsible for the loss of much wildlife and their habitats in Europe, through reduction and fragmentation of habitats and wildlife populations. The drainage of wetlands, the destruction of hedgerows and the intensive use of fertilizers and pesticides can all pose a threat to wildlife. Highly specialised monoculture are causing significant loss in species abundance and diversity. On the other hand increased production per hectare in intensive areas, raising of livestock volume, and lower prices for agricultural products also caused marginalization of agricultural land, changing the diversity of European landscapes into the direction of two main types: Intensive Agriculture and Abandoned land.

Energy
Abandonment can be positive for nature, but this is not necessarily so. Land abandonment increases the risk of fire in the Mediterranean Region, causes a decline of small-scale landscape diversity and can also cause decrease in species diversity.
All energy types have potential impacts on the natural environment to varying degrees at all stages of use, from extraction through processing to end use. Generating energy from any source involves making the choices between impacts and how far those impacts can be tolerated at the local and global scale. This is especially of importance for nuclear power, where there are significant risks of radioactive pollution such as at Chernobyl.
Shell Oil Company and IUCN have jointly drafted environmental regulations for oil-exploitation in Arctic areas of Siberia. Other oil companies are aware of this and use these environmental regulations voluntarily for developing oil fields.
Into the future the sustainability of the natural environment will be improved as trends away from damaging energy uses and extractive methods reduce and whilst real cost market forces and the polluter pays principle take effect.  

Fisheries
The principle of the fisheries sector is towards sustainable catches of wild aquatic fauna. The principle environmental impact associated with fisheries activities is the unsustainable harvesting of fish stocks and shellfish and has consequences for the ecological balance of the aquatic environment. The sector is in a state of "crisis", with over capacity of the fleet, overexploitation of stocks, debt, and marketing problems.
Growing aquaculture industry may increase water pollution in western Europe, and is appearing to be a rising trend in the Mediterranean and Central/East Europe.
Fishing activities have an impact on cetaceans and there is concern that large numbers of dolphins, and even the globally endangered Monk seal, are being killed.

Forestry
Compared to other landuses, forest management has the longest tradition in following sustainable principles due to which over 30% of Europe is still covered with trees. Without such an organised approach, forests are likely to have already disappeared from Europe's lowlands. However, as an economic sector, forestry has also impacted severely on the naturalness of Europe's forests: soils have been drained, pesticides and fertilizers applied, and exotic species planted. In many areas monocultures have replaced the original diverse forest composition. Monocultures are extremely sensitive to insect infestations, fires or wind, and so can lead to financial losses as well as biological decline. The inadequate afforestation practices characterize new trends in impacting on the sustainability of the natural environment.  

Industry
Almost all forms of industry have an impact on the natural environment and its sustainability. The impact varies at different stages in the life cycle of a product, depending upon the raw materials used through to the final end use of the product for waste residue, reuse or recycling. Industrial accidents and war damage to industrial plants can also endanger the natural environment.

Tourism and Recreation
Tourism and recreation impact in various ways on the natural environment. On the one hand, natural areas form the very basis of many touristic attractions by highlighting scenic value or exceptional encounters with fauna and flora. However, some forms of tourism can be extremely detrimental to ecologically sensitive areas, resulting in habitat degeneration or destruction, in the disturbance or hunting even rare or threatened species. The pressure from short holiday seasons and specific, sometimes small, locations of touristic interest result in conflicting land-uses, such as in the Alpine regions, at Mediterranean beaches and along many banks of inland waters.  

Transport and Infrastructure
Transport is perhaps the major contributor to pollution in the world today, particularly global environmental issues such as the greenhouse effect. The key impacts of transportation include fragmentation of habitats and species and genetic populations, disruption of migration and traffic mortalities to wildlife. Since the 1970s transport has become a major consumer of non-renewable resources, 80% of oil consumption coming from road transport.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 07:40:33 PM by Renotrigger »

Offline Renotrigger

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« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2007, 07:33:16 PM »
I've got more if you need it.
And I'm not a tree hugger. I'm just aware of the world outside of my computer.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 07:35:19 PM by Renotrigger »

Offline john9001

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« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2007, 07:55:33 PM »
so half the people on the planet should kill themselves, you first.

Offline Renotrigger

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« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2007, 08:35:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
so half the people on the planet should kill themselves, you first.

What are you 12. I was just offering proof, to those who said they wanted it. Grow up.

Offline john9001

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« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2007, 09:47:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Renotrigger
What are you 12. I was just offering proof, to those who said they wanted it. Grow up.



you have the "proof", but you offer no solutions to the problem.

BTW i'm not 12, i'm 10 and a half, and i'm growing as fast as i can.

Offline Mace2004

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« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2007, 09:48:30 PM »
You like quotes Renotrigger?  This comes closest to demonstrating my point:

Quote
But there's something even more precious to be gained if we do the right thing. The climate crisis offers us the chance to experience what few generations in history have had the privilege of experiencing: a generational mission; a compelling moral purpose; a shared cause; and the thrill of being forced by circumstances to put aside the pettiness and conflict of politics and to embrace a genuine moral and spiritual challenge.


For this guy, environmentalism, specifically fixing the mythical "climate crisis" is not just the right thing to do.  It's a "mission; a compelling moral purpose; a shared cause; and .... to embrace a genuine moral and spiritual challenge".  Now, what does this sound like to you?  Sounds like a religion to me.  Take a few facts, stir them around briskly, ignore other facts (inconvienient facts), flavor with "faith" and throw in a few Hymns and you have a new, more modern religion.  Oh yeah, while you're at it call non-believers the equivalent of heretics (remember the meterologist at TWC that wanted non-believing meterologists disbarred?).  How about those in Congress that want to essentially "outlaw" opposing views?  They are threatening to drag several of the energy companies before them just because they don't want to toe the party line.

This is the problem.  It's popular to ridicule Christians that believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old and that God placed fossils in it for his own reason.  They look at a single document (the Bible) and that's sufficient proof to them that these are facts beyond dispute while ignoring hundreds of years of peer-reviewed science.  In other words, their beliefs fly in the face of most known facts but the difference here is that these believers are not looking to take the cash out of my wallet (all though they may ask for some), force their theology down my throat through political action or to pursue policies that would destroy not only the US economy but the worlds.

As I said before there is no reason that people shouldn't believe and participate in some environmental programs as long as their need is adequately documented and the appropriate cost/benefit controls are in place; however, any time a "movement" arises which begins the debate with lies and misrepresentations, and attempts to generate hysteria should be questioned especially in light of the failed claims of such extremists in the past.  Remember that we would run out of oil by 1990?  How about the huge threat of global cooling (I think that was the '80's)?  

Now, lets take a look at AAAS.  First, they have support of at least two groups that many find rather "extreme", The Environmental Conservancy and The World Wildlife Fund.  Their "news" portal (EurekAlert!) claims to provide access to "embargoed" news (What's that?  The junk science thrown out into the wastebin by responsible scientists?) but only for "Journalists" and "Public Information Officers."  Of course you, the general public can't have access to "embargoed" news or the "Experts Database".  Why not?   AAAS claims to have 138,000 members and gives the impression they're all "scientists" but it never specifically says who comprises it's membership....except of course anyone seems to be able to join.  So, how many of it's membership are actually scientists?  138,000 members out of a US population of over 300 million?  That's .046 percent of the population.  I think there are probably a few more scientists around than that.

I'm not saying that AAAS is not really legitimate, I don't know myself.  It's just that I'd think you'd want to ask a few fairly simple questions before quoting one organization "atlas" as "proof" of anything.

Oh, btw, the first quote...you know the new Epistle for Environmentalism?  That was Al Gore.
Mace
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Offline Renotrigger

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Sorry I upset anyone.
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2007, 10:24:12 PM »
I don't really know alot about Al Gore, I just know he was into the enviroment before he was in Politics. So I don't understand what everyone has against him. So what if he wants to run for President. I really don't care who the President is. (Not in to politics) I just want people to think about the enviroment. I feel anyone who can't see we are doing damage is just in denial. I'm not trying to upset anyone, just trying make people aware. See you guys in the skys.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 10:41:30 PM by Renotrigger »

Offline Renotrigger

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« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2007, 10:26:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
BTW i'm not 12, i'm 10 and a half, and i'm growing as fast as i can.

lol

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #55 on: July 10, 2007, 08:30:41 AM »
renotrigger..  since you seem to believe all this man made global warming stuff and.. not only that but that we can change the climate either way..

What would you have us do?

simple question really..  I don't even expect an answer... I will help.

You don't seem to be in favor of half the population of the world committing suicide to "solve the problem"

You do seem to be in favor of throwing concerts to solve the problem..

there must be some other pet idea you have.

What would you have us do... be specific... if you say "conserve" then tell us exactly what we, each of us would be allowed to use for energy a year and why..

If you say control the population... tell us exactly how many babies we can have and who would be allowed to have them.

and so on.  

lazs

Offline Renotrigger

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« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2007, 10:16:16 AM »
ok, I take the bus, even though I own a car, I only drive in emergencies. I lived in Nevada and worked on a project where they cut down trees for paper products and housing supplies, but we always planted sapling to take there place. If you are serious about saving the planted and not just about condeming anyone trying to, take the bus it cuts down on emissions in the air. less cars on the road means less polutions in the air. If thier is no bus try biking it's healthy for you and the enviroment.
The problem with most of my suggestions in that the human population is spoiled and set in thier ways. People could buy smart cars or use biofuels. I mean there are a lot of thing that we can do to clean the air, I'm not saying there will be signifcant changes in our life time on even our childrens but over time, just as we are killing the planet with enough people doing someting, or anything to change what we (when I say "we" I'm talking about previous generations too) have done, we can repair it.
Why are ppl jumping all over me about this, I'm trying to change the situation and all you folks can do is jump down my throat for it. I assume you are smart enough to figure out what can be done to change the world.
I also walk if it's less then ten miles distance. Like I said people are set in their ways so no matter what I suggest, most humans are to lazy to change thier ways and try to help.  I know I can't change anything in my life time but I'm thinking about our children and thier children. these are just a few suggestions. Peace!!

Offline Mace2004

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« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2007, 10:49:13 AM »
Renotrigger I have to agree with everything you said except for your comment about "killing the planet".  We're not killing the planet and the planet will probably be here long after we're gone but I understand what you're saying.  We should not thoughtlessly pollute or destroy but on the other hand we, as a civilization, need to live and thrive.  Your personal preferences and contributions with regard to doing your part are your business and no one should tell you not to follow your own beliefs; however, the point where I draw the line is the propensity for some to dictate how all should live.  Just as I am against Christians who think that selling liquour on Sunday is a sin and should be illegal (as it is in most states), I am against environmental activists that want to force their "Earth First" theology on others.  Ride your bike and enjoy it.  I'd probably ride mine more if I didn't have a thirty mile commute and rainstorms to consider but I do not buy into every proclaimed "environmental catastrophy" that comes down the pike.
Mace
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Offline Renotrigger

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« Reply #58 on: July 10, 2007, 11:05:36 AM »
I agree Mace. I am not trying to push my beliefs on anyone, I am just trying to make people aware of the big picture. I am guilty of poluting the planet just like everyone. I don't believe I can change the world or believe all the preaching in the world would. I also understand that alot of people commute along way to work or school. I'm sorry if I sound preachy. I just don't understand how some people can say that some of the problem isn't our doing. I am also sorry, because I seemed to have highjacked this forum, and turned it into an enviromental debate. It was about the concert,not the enviroment. Sorry again folks.

Offline john9001

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« Reply #59 on: July 10, 2007, 11:24:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Renotrigger
I am also sorry, because I seemed to have highjacked this forum, and turned it into an enviromental debate. It was about the concert,not the enviroment. Sorry again folks.


but the concert was about the environment, so it was not a hijack.