Author Topic: Corporate religious discrimination  (Read 973 times)

Offline Elfie

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Corporate religious discrimination
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2007, 11:12:01 AM »
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Here's a real world example: Pizza Hut has a Taco Pizza, but not all Pizza Huts offer it.


That would be an example of an optional item would it not?
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In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Chairboy

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Corporate religious discrimination
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2007, 11:12:37 AM »
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Originally posted by Jackal1
So.......you are saying race discrimination, right?
Is there a gas leak in here?  No, because religion ain't a race as far as I know.  He's objecting on religious grounds.  This isn't a first amendment issue because Dunkin Donuts isn't the government (yet), it's a small business issue.  As far as I can tell, they (as a corporation) are probably entitled to set this restriction legally, I just think it's dirty pool.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Phaser11

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Corporate religious discrimination
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2007, 11:13:58 AM »
OK,
I do think it is getting a bit out of hand and yes it is discrimination at a personnel level. Not the corporate level. Some guy at there HQ does not like this guy (or Muslims). He really could have let it slide, a bisket please.

We see it in the news, but we forget. I remember the Walgreen’s pharmacist refusing to sell the morning after pill. I don't recall Walgreen’s pulling there franchise.

Is it as simple as discrimination? There is nothing simple about discrimination. We all do it, we all see it everyday. Can we stop it? NO we are not smart enough as a people yet (Human race that is).

But there is always hope.

Phaser
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Offline Chairboy

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Corporate religious discrimination
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2007, 11:14:24 AM »
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Originally posted by Elfie
RE: Taco pizza
That would be an example of an optional item would it not?
The fact that three other Dunkin Donuts in his district also don't serve these sandwiches and remain sanction free suggests that they too must be optional, doesn't it?
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline x0847Marine

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Corporate religious discrimination
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2007, 11:38:44 AM »
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Originally posted by Chairboy
The fact that three other Dunkin Donuts in his district also don't serve these sandwiches and remain sanction free suggests that they too must be optional, doesn't it?

They had specific reasons not related to supernatural opinion, cited in the article
were space issues and /  or lease restriction. Viable reasons to make exceptions.

This dude decided not to offer a franchise product based on his opinion.

If they allowed every franchise owner to decide what should and shouldn't be offered in their stores, nation wide menus would reflect the owners opinion, not the Dunkin Donuts brand... and lack the consistency customers come to expect.

Offline Jackal1

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Corporate religious discrimination
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2007, 11:39:40 AM »
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Is there a gas leak in here?  No, because religion ain't a race as far as I know.  He's objecting on religious grounds.  


So.........religious discrimination .
Got it.
:rolleyes:
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Offline lasersailor184

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Corporate religious discrimination
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2007, 11:52:04 AM »
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Well, he pays franchise fees, presumably, and he sells donuts and coffee and whatnot.  He's a small business owner that chooses not to sell these pork sandwiches which are a small part of the menu, which seems like a reasonable decision.

I used to own two franchise restaurants, and there's always pressure to add new products from corporate without regard to whether they'll sell, so while the issues I had are different in specific from him, perhaps I'm more sympathetic to the idea that as the owner of his business, he should be able to choose not to sell those products.  It's his money on the line, not to mention his soul in his mind.


Most liberals fail to realize that any business transaction is freely made from both sides.   Each side, be it the business or the buyer has the choice of whether or not to go through with the transaction.
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Offline Chairboy

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Corporate religious discrimination
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2007, 11:55:54 AM »
Could you clarify how this applies to this issue, Lasersailor?  I'm afraid I don't see the connection, and my ego hopes I'm not the only one too dense to get it.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline lasersailor184

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Corporate religious discrimination
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2007, 11:58:16 AM »
There really wasn't much to the statement.


For any transaction to take place, both parties have to be willing.  The muslim owner stated that he wasn't willing to abide by the agreements of the transaction, and Dunkin Donuts then terminated the transaction.  It's not rocket science here...
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
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Offline john9001

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Corporate religious discrimination
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2007, 12:00:28 PM »
""Elkhatib sued Dunkin' Donuts and its former parent company, Allied Domecq, later that year, claiming that the chain's refusal to renew his franchises constituted racial discrimination.""

he is suing based on racial discrimination.  it says so right there.

Offline Elfie

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Corporate religious discrimination
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2007, 12:02:34 PM »
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Originally posted by Chairboy
The fact that three other Dunkin Donuts in his district also don't serve these sandwiches and remain sanction free suggests that they too must be optional, doesn't it?


Maybe, maybe not. Two of the stores would have to relocate in order to offer the sandwiches. That might not be feasible from a financial standpoint. The costs of moving and leasing a new place could be cost prohibitive. The third *could* offer them by simply rearranging the displays. (Thats what the article you linked to said.) It also might not be in their franchise contracts for various reasons.

Bottom line is, if he is violating his franchise contract Dunkin Donuts has every right to revoke his franchise immediately.

It could also be that he is one of those people that is a royal pain the the butt to deal with and Dunkin Donuts is just using this as an excuse to get rid of him.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Xargos

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Corporate religious discrimination
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2007, 12:07:04 PM »
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It could also be that he is one of those people that is a royal pain the the butt to deal with and Dunkin Donuts is just using this as an excuse to get rid of him.


Some how I do not find that hard to believe.
Jeffery R."Xargos" Ward

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Offline Seagoon

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Corporate religious discrimination
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2007, 12:10:03 PM »
Hi Chair,

Interesting case - incidentally, the owner is actually suing on the basis of racial discrimination not religious discrimination as employment law tends to be very tight on not discriminating on the basis of race but with few restrictions regarding discrimination on the basis of religion. Here is part of the ABA's summary of the case:

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Recent cases reflect the difficulty some companies have had in integrating Muslim workers and others into their workplace or business. For example, in August 2002, Walid Elkhatib opened a letter from the general counsel of Dunkin’ Donuts informing him that the company would not be renewing his franchise agreement. Elkhatib, whose Muslim faith forbids him from handling pork, had refused to sell the company’s new line of breakfast sandwiches at any of his three restaurants. When the time came for Elkhatib to renew his franchise, the company declined his application, citing his refusal to sell the full line of products. Not fitting the template for an employment discrimination case reachable under Title VII, Elkhatib invoked 42 U.S.C. § 1981, which bars racial and certain forms of ancestry discrimination in the making of contracts. The federal court ultimately rejected Elkhatib’s claim, finding that it was a religious rather than a racial claim (hence not reachable under section 1981), and that the Dunkin’ Donuts rule affected religions such as Islam and Judaism equally. Elkhatib v. Dunkin’Donuts, Inc., No. 02 C 8131, 2004 WL 2600119 (N.D. Ill. Nov. 15, 2004).


The fact is many businesses routinely make decisions that interfere with an employees free exercise of their religion. For instance, when the local Goodyear plant in our area recently insisted that one of our congregants switch over to working on Sunday, he found that he had no legal protections against the move despite the fact that as a church we are strongly opposed to non-essential work on the Lord's Day (for a brief round-up of why this is the case please click here). I know of another Christian who ended up selling his franchises over the parent company's insistence that he carry pornographic magazines. The fact is that in the United States, when it comes to matters of religion, the balance of power is definitely with the employer not the employee. Many of our congregants have had to accept this and turn down jobs or work extra hard because of this, and I've had to deal with absurd religious discrimination in the workplace myself. As Christians we should be willing to accept this as part of the price of following Christ.  

Personally, while I sympathize with Walid's  desire not to go against conscience (even though I obviously don't agree with Muslim dietary restriction), I find his legal appeal to his race as the basis for the discrimination he is encountering to be lame, frankly. If the Kuffar's insist on him selling pork in order to be part of his chain, he should be willing to leave the franchise and pay the price of his conviction. I can't count the number of Christian friends I have who've had to do essentially that including one concert pianist who has turned down world tours because the contract stipulated Sunday performances.

While I believe in the principle of reasonable accomodation, I accept that there is simply no way every company can accomodate every religious belief. A western modeling agency, for instance, is not going to be able to accomodate the Muslim requirement that women wear the Hijab. An Automaker is not going to be able to accomodate Amish employees on the assembly line, and so on.

Unfortunately, since societally we are becoming increasingly balkanized and have abandoned the ability to discriminate between truth claims, I think we are going to see more rather than less of these lawsuits.

- SEAGOON
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 12:13:41 PM by Seagoon »
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline Elfie

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Corporate religious discrimination
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2007, 12:18:17 PM »
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Personally, while I sympathize with Walid's desire not to go against conscience (even though I obviously don't agree with Muslim dietary restriction), I find his legal appeal to his race[/i] as the basis for the discrimination he is encountering to be lame, frankly. If the Kuffar's insist on him selling pork in order to be part of his chain, he should be willing to leave the franchise and pay the price of his conviction.


Well said.

For Mr. Walid this is a religious issue but he is suing for racial discrimination. It's not an Arab issue with not handling pork, it's a Muslim issue...ie...his religious views. I think Dunkin Donuts will ultimately win this one.

*edit*

Here's another thought. He is the owner, why can't he just let his employees handle the pork? Unless of course all of his employees are also Muslim. ;)
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline AWMac

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Corporate religious discrimination
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2007, 12:20:26 PM »
WTF is this coming to?  It's NOT Muslim Correct?
It's NOT Islamic Correct?
Screw them all...  Make them all frikken Martyrs and let them deal with 70 dam virgins in the same kitchen.

My Sister-in-Law married a Bangledesh Camel Boy and now wears a Burka, prays 5 times a day facing Mecca... He was stupid enough to celebrate 9/11 at my Brother in Laws home in Korea and got his arse properly beat down.  That opened and closed his both his eyes.

They now live in CanaDuh and if that SOB ever crosses the Northern Border I'll take him out.... and buy him some BBQ pork.

A frikken Burka and a Koran don't make you any more religious than the Bear and the Pope.

I'm just so frikken tired of the Liberals stand at appeasing hand over foot the Muslims and the Islamic extremist, it makes me want to puke.

Mac


ask me how I really feel.