Author Topic: Iraq For Sale - the war profiteers  (Read 1201 times)

Offline uberhun

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Iraq For Sale - the war profiteers
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2007, 02:40:37 PM »
If we were still a Republic instead of a lacky and potato for the Federal Reserve, we would not be in Iraq. We would be securing our borders and our citizens. Just like we all do with our families and homes everyday we leave for work. (You lock the door) WTF people quit buying into this spoon fed Govt. crap. Open your eyes These people we elected are suppose to defend the constitution. Instead they walk on it and the memories of all who gave their lives for it. It is not about Democrats or Republicans. They are the same people. They belong to the same clubs. The NWO!
:noid

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2007, 03:47:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by crockett
I'm pretty sure they could very easily pay for people to cross check for price gouging in their contracts. In fact they would likely save the US tax payers probably a few billion dollars year. I'd think trading off even 50 million to pay for cross checks would be worth while.

Besides that you don't have to check every single item, they could easily have the same result by checking a random percentage of billed items or services.

If US watchdog groups can find this kind of stuff via freedom of information act.. Well stands pretty good reason that the US Air Force or whom ever could find them as well.

The money save would more than pay for the expensise of cross checking the billing. You think Walmart doesn't cross check it's billing?


You still have no comprehension of the enormity of that task. Just for the F-15 fighter for instance, there are literally thousands and thousands of parts. That's just one piece of equipment the military uses.

Walmart isn't even a valid comparison. Comparing Walmart to the military would be like comparing your local 7-11 to  a Super-Walmart. That might not even show the magnitude of difference between Walmart and the military.

I'll use the LAU-114 missile launcher as an example. Each wiring bundle (and there are several) has it's own part number as does each individual wire within that bundle. Each bundle has from 10ish to as many as 50 - 60 wires. (Bear with me on the numbers, it's been a LONG time since I worked on a LAU-114 launcher.) Next we move to electronic components such as resistors,  electrical connectors and power supply just to name a couple. Then we have mechanical parts such as the locking mechanism that prevents the missile from just falling off the launcher, safety locks ((both mechanical and electrical) to prevent accidental firing while the aircraft is on the ground. Each panel on the launcher has it's own part number. There are about 10 - 12 different types of screws/fasteners used in the LAU-114. There are literally over 1000 DIFFERENT parts used in the LAU-114. The LAU-114 is just ONE sub-assembly on the F-15. Are you starting to get an idea of the magnitude of the number of parts on an F-15?

Now try to multiply what that by the sheer number of different weapons and equipment the military uses. It's mind boggling. This is what makes it so difficult for the military to avoid items that are being price gouged. This is also why the Air Force ( I assume the other branches have similar programs) relies on each and every person in the chain that orders parts, from the lowly flight line grunt (I was one of those :D) to the person pulling the parts from supply to the person ordering parts from the manufacturers and everyone inbetween  to watch the prices of said parts and report (via those forms I talked about) prices that appear to be out of whack.

Is it a perfect system? Of course not. Does it help, it sure does. Like I said before, find out how YOU as a taxpayer can report these things. Then do your civic duty and report them. ;)
Corkyjr on country jumping:
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Offline Elfie

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« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2007, 03:50:25 PM »
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If we were still a Republic instead of a lacky and potato for the Federal Reserve,


Can you explain that in more detail please? :)
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2007, 04:06:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by x0847Marine
"How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html

"Fortune From The Nazis -The Dutch Connection" By Attorney John Loftus
http://www.rense.com/general26/dutch.htm

http://www.clamormagazine.org/issues/14/feature3.php

"According to classified documents from Dutch intelligence and US government archives, President George W. Bush's grandfather, Prescott Bush made considerable profits off Auschwitz slave labor. In fact, President Bush himself is an heir to these profits from the holocaust which were placed in a blind trust in 1980 by his father, former president George Herbert Walker Bush."

Edit:
And a "fair and balanced" view from Fox news:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100474,00.html
"Reports of Bush's involvement with the seized bank have been circulating on the Internet for years and have been reported by some mainstream media. The newly declassified documents provide additional details about the Union Banking-Thyssen connection."


This sounds like a 9-11 conspiracy theory. Yes, I read all of the articles you linked.

Again, you are trying to lay blame and responsibility on the President for things his grandfather may/may not have done. Rediculous.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2007, 04:55:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
Nice try.   Take your poop slinging elsewhere.



Who the hell was talking to you anyways?

Offline crockett

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« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2007, 06:19:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
You still have no comprehension of the enormity of that task. Just for the F-15 fighter for instance, there are literally thousands and thousands of parts. That's just one piece of equipment the military uses.

Walmart isn't even a valid comparison. Comparing Walmart to the military would be like comparing your local 7-11 to  a Super-Walmart. That might not even show the magnitude of difference between Walmart and the military.

Is it a perfect system? Of course not. Does it help, it sure does. Like I said before, find out how YOU as a taxpayer can report these things. Then do your civic duty and report them. ;)


Well me and myself, trying to find these issues is like trying to use a piece of ductape to pug a leak in the hoover dam.

Sure maybe I might get lucky and find a few items after digging through thousands of pages, however you are missing the point I am getting at.

We as the people of this country, need to start taking a stand and not accepting this kind of BS. The reason it happens is because the enviorment in our current govt allows it to happen.

That is what needs to change, then the rest will slowly take care of it self. The only way to make that change start to happen, is for the public to be made aware. That's the ball that has to start rolling.

Hence the reason I think it's imporant for people to watch this documenty. Nothing will change until the people of this country decide they have had enough of the BS.
"strafing"

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2007, 06:31:39 PM »
Quote
The reason it happens is because the enviorment in our current govt allows it to happen.


The reason a majority of it happens and continues to happen, is for reasons I have already stated.


Quote
Well me and myself, trying to find these issues is like trying to use a piece of ductape to pug a leak in the hoover dam.


The situation isn't a whole lot better for the military either, just due to the sheer volume of parts/services the military deals with.

Quote
We as the people of this country, need to start taking a stand and not accepting this kind of BS. The reason it happens is because the enviorment in our current govt allows it to happen.


The major media outlets need to really harp on this issue. Iirc, it wasn't until the $500 claw hammers, $20,000 toilet seats (or whatever they were priced at) became public through the major media outlets that investigations were done and programs initiated (like the one I talked about) to help combat this issue.

You can also write your congressman and senator, show them a link to that video, give them a brief overview of it with FACTS and SPECIFIC examples from the video.

As to your earlier suggestion about the military having a group of folks that specifically search for these types of issues....I think funding for that would have to be obtained from Congress. Which is something else you could mention in your correspondence with your representatives.

I'm not missing your point at all. I'm just trying to impress upon you the magnitude of the job at hand and why it is so difficult for the military to police this issue themselves with how the system currently works.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline FrodeMk3

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« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2007, 07:03:59 PM »
Elfie, I always figured that the dramatic overpricing was how the DoD was able to funnel money to ultra-secret black projects. You know, things like the Stealth fighter/Bomber, KH-11's, that sort of thing. I mean, if you run the funding for something like that through normal channels, it won't remain a secret long. So, you skim the money out of other areas, using mundane items like hammers and toilet seats.

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2007, 07:16:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Elfie, I always figured that the dramatic overpricing was how the DoD was able to funnel money to ultra-secret black projects. You know, things like the Stealth fighter/Bomber, KH-11's, that sort of thing. I mean, if you run the funding for something like that through normal channels, it won't remain a secret long. So, you skim the money out of other areas, using mundane items like hammers and toilet seats.


That's a good point and it undoubtedly happens with some projects. Isn't there also a budget for *black* projects as well that your average congressman and senator doesn't get to see itemized lists for?

Look at the movie Independence Day, they talk about funding Area 51 that way.:noid

Ok, just kidding on that last part. :D
Corkyjr on country jumping:
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Offline FrodeMk3

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« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2007, 09:44:45 PM »
The way things are on capitol hill, anything with any kind of secret label would get compromised, before the ink even dried on the funding proposal.

Offline rpm

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« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2007, 11:16:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
You obviously don't realize just how many parts/services the Pentagon uses each year. It just isn't reasonable to expect them to be able to investigate the price on each and every part/service they use.
It is quite reasonable. That is the job of the Government Accountability Office (GAO).

The Air Force doesn't just pick a guy out of the Yellow Pages when they need parts. You obviously just don't realise they bid contracts for every part and service (until Iraq). I'm sure KBR ran those $35 cases of Coca-Cola past the GAO before they bid the contract.

Oops! No Bid Contract! $$$$$$$$$$
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Offline crockett

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« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2007, 11:48:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
It is quite reasonable. That is the job of the Government Accountability Office (GAO).

The Air Force doesn't just pick a guy out of the Yellow Pages when they need parts. You obviously just don't realise they bid contracts for every part and service (until Iraq). I'm sure KBR ran those $35 cases of Coca-Cola past the GAO before they bid the contract.

Oops! No Bid Contract! $$$$$$$$$$


$45 dollar 6 packs..  A case is 24 cans.. KBR would charge the tax payers $180 dollars for a case. Or halliburton I forget which company it was..
"strafing"

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2007, 12:59:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
It is quite reasonable. That is the job of the Government Accountability Office (GAO).

The Air Force doesn't just pick a guy out of the Yellow Pages when they need parts. You obviously just don't realise they bid contracts for every part and service (until Iraq). I'm sure KBR ran those $35 cases of Coca-Cola past the GAO before they bid the contract.

Oops! No Bid Contract! $$$$$$$$$$


Even the GAO doesn't have the manpower to go over every contract with a fine tooth comb. Nor do they have the manpower to research costs on every item. In a perfect world they wouldn't even need to do that, but with greedy people alive and well doing business with the government it is bound to happen.

You would think that they would catch things like $500 hammers, $20,000 toilet seats and $45 6 packs of soda, but obviously they don't catch them all.

No bid contracts only add to this problem imo. Otoh, with all the red tape involved with the bidding process that process can take a stupid amount of time.

I think the bidding process should have been accelerated somehow instead of just handing out contracts w/o companies and corporations having to bid.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2007, 01:01:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FrodeMk3
The way things are on capitol hill, anything with any kind of secret label would get compromised, before the ink even dried on the funding proposal.


If I remember correctly, the F-117 project was funded via the Black projects budget. I seem to recall reading about that somewhere, although I could be wrong on this.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Hap

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« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2007, 09:17:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by uberhun
If we were still a Republic instead of a lacky and potato for the Federal Reserve, we would not be in Iraq. We would be securing our borders and our citizens. Just like we all do with our families and homes everyday we leave for work. (You lock the door) WTF people quit buying into this spoon fed Govt. crap. Open your eyes These people we elected are suppose to defend the constitution. Instead they walk on it and the memories of all who gave their lives for it. It is not about Democrats or Republicans. They are the same people. They belong to the same clubs. The NWO!
:noid


Of all the posts in this thread thus far, uber has touched on the crux of the matter.  Especially his 1st phrase.

As far as the NWO goes, I think it's just the OWO (Old World Order) of a bunch of guys liking money a whole lot more than they like people.  It's like a game.  Like Aces High's "scoreboard" page that so many mock because you can game the game.  But it's the game that's played, you know what I mean?

Just finishing up a really good book by G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy.  Only 150 pages.  I'm about 35 from the end.  Will have to reread it carefully.  Good to have a background in philosophy and literature which I somehow picked up along life's way.  Good book.  Offers a wonderful alternative to the old game.