FBI uses spyware with out warrants (wired)

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Chairboy
Same with seditious statements!  Why, the very sanctity of our nation could be shaken by the words of a communist-sympathizer!

The eyes of the constitution must occasionally be shielded from the necessary actions we take to protect ourselves.  When the FBI infiltrates a computer without judicial oversight, it must be allowed no matter what.  When the government stamps out vocal dissent that may cause unrest, it must be allowed so our safety may flourish!  In time of war, you are no citizen if you object to forcibly housing our great soldiers, and if you're honest, you must confess your crimes.  

Guns, too, must be given up on demand when our leaders demand it, and if you put your hobby above the safety of your neighbors, what kind of person are you?  It is also a privilege to be held indefinitely by the state while they determine exactly what your offenses are, any protest should be seen as evidence of guilt obviously.  A jury, too, need not have their busy days bothered by your incarceration, our leaders pick judges that will _get it right_.

Huzzah, say I, huzzah to both those who trade our liberties for comfort, and doubly so to those brave patriots like Masherbrum that support it in the face of hostility!  'Tis but a pebble fighting an avalanche of freedom, but that pebble shall and must stand strong against the forces of "liberty, justice, and the pursuit of happiness".

Are you channeling Eagler again?

[McFarland]

The government can only do to the people what the people let them. This is an infringement of rights. The current FBI wouldn't know the constitution and the Bill of Rights if it bit them. Nor would most politicians.

[bustr]

So stop quibling guys. Has the open source community written the freeware specific reponse to this for the windows platform?????????????

Kinda reminds me of Back Orafice and related gems of naughtyness. But then in a way installing a response specificly to this in a surreal way could be leveraged by the FBI as impeding an ongoing investigation. If you are aware that the government is investigating you and you get in their way...expect the knock on the door in the wee hours......amazing catch 22 back door to make an instant criminal of people. So do the antivirus companies have to knowingly not key for the FBI's trojan?

Kinda like the ATF trying to close down a gun store in Idaho by saying the owner didn't organise his paper work alphabeticly.................

[bustr]

My previous post is silly.......chances are the FBI has the ISP allow them to run the program from the first hop and scans the suspects PC traffic and machine's ports. A personal firewall would take care of most of the intrusion other than looking at your traffic. Don't you think it's rather silly to be so trusting of your ISP the FBI could plant a trojan on your PC?

[Gh0stFT]

Originally posted by crockett
Why would I blame bush? What's he have to do with this, other than under his admin our rights seem to be disappearing down the toilet.

some wise guy here  

on the other hand, where does all this lead? a free secure land,
totaly controled. At least this way they will catch illegal pron & software user too!

btw. the german gouverment tried a similar thing without luck.
Now they discussing new laws in Germany to fight terrorism,
proposing special detention centers for "combatants" and even
suggesting that it is appropriate to kill a terrorist suspect.

imagine that! yes what a wonderfull world is coming.

Kurt Beck (a german politician) said it best: "We mustn't kill liberty in an effort to defend it."

[john9001]

the cops can do anything they want, it will be up to you to hire a expensive lawyer and fight it in court. Guilty until proven innocent.

[TalonX]

The govt can tap your phone line with probable cause and an order from a judge.  We should have the same standard for spyware planted by the govt.

Recall the approximate words of Franklin, "Those who would yield a little freedom for a little security, deserve neither."      Don't give away your freedom, your rights, to feel a little safer.

[ROC]

In an affidavit seeking a search warrant to use the software

Hmm, search warrant, kid pleads guilty, probable cause and all that.

Ya, Illegal as hell.

Come on guys, try decaf once and a while.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by bustr
A personal firewall would take care of most of the intrusion other than looking at your traffic.

Or not. Personal Firewalls are not that great, many of them are leaky. Although some have improved tremendously recently.

The issue around spyware isn't just the invasion of privacy, its no secret spyware can have an impact on your pc's reliability and performance. What happens if you lose important documents or data because this spyware conflicts with something. Its like planting a bug in your car that could fry the electrical system.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by crockett
lol never mind.. it went right over your head..

No it didn't.  I don't make "bomb threats", so I, Karaya, have not one thing to worry about.  

Dumb kids do.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
No it didn't.  I don't make "bomb threats", so I, Karaya, have not one thing to worry about.  

Dumb kids do.

Well, right now you posted the phrase 'bomb threats'. It originated from your PC, your IP, in plaintext, easily sniffable. Now say a scanner like carnivore picked up on that what would happen? And is your home PC on a static or dynamic IP? What if someone who was a real threat spoofed your IP address while making threats?  Or simply spoofed your email address?

The internet is a very dynamic world, it is hard to identify 100% the sources of data, and fairly easy to make mistakes.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Vulcan
Well, right now you posted the phrase 'bomb threats'. It originated from your PC, your IP, in plaintext, easily sniffable. Now say a scanner like carnivore picked up on that what would happen? And is your home PC on a static or dynamic IP? What if someone who was a real threat spoofed your IP address while making threats?  Or simply spoofed your email address?

The internet is a very dynamic world, it is hard to identify 100% the sources of data, and fairly easy to make mistakes.

I typed it, all someone with 1/2 of a brain would do, would print a hard copy and toss it in the trash.

Now the dumb kids, well, you get what is happening in the original post.

I say we ignore our kids even more, and allow the "parental responsibility" to slip more than it already has.   I am ALL FOR IT, since it's working awesome these days!

[FrodeMk3]

Ok, I have a question about this; If my Anti-virus or spyware cleaning programs find, quarantine, or eliminate a(n) FBI-planted trojan, Am I guilty of obstruction of Justice? Or is Trend-PC cillin?

Anti-virus programs seem to always be behind the ball when it comes to malware. But, some of the better programs might just recognize any FBI-sourced program as another virus, trojan, or worm, and shut it down. Wouldn't that be the same as illegally interfering with an investigation?

[Chairboy]

At my company, we are on record as having NOT whitelisted any government surveillance programs.  Both when I was in charge of QA for our consumer firewall, and no exceptions in our A/V defs used by all our products.

[AKIron]

Since we are paying these guys (even if isn't voluntary) I feel divided on this. If they aren't sneaky in looking for bad guys I feel they are slackers. If they are spying on me I feel indignant. So long as they back off when we catch 'em out of line I probably won't march on Washington.