Why is Allies vs Axis always empty ???

[TequilaChaser]

SAV,
If the numbers are low say 10 to each side, then you are saying it is a good thought and good etiquette to let 4 to 6 guys pounce 1 lone plane flying and already fighting another in the AvsA ?  and it is that own lone guys mistake for being in a situation to where he could be pounced by 5 others after he is alread tied up in an engagement with an enemy plane?

or like some person posted on here, to where he likes to go in and vulch players taking off  in the AvsA arena?

hmm let me scan back and quote the person who said that....just one minute please.....

POSTED by iaqmya:
Oh, and by the way, I have flown for a few years, here and WB. I just never got good at it, but do so much enjoy shooting people down. Especially if they are taking off from a capped field that has been de acked and no ground vehicles

I have played this game for a good number of years myself, and I have never in my life heard anyone from the AvsA staff tell another that they are breaking any rules regarding flying with an alt cap, vulching a field, dogpiling 1 or 2 lone players,  I have however seen them perform their duties in calling people out on not being polite, or using vulgarity/masked vulgarity/fragging friendlies/ being a nusiance and disruptting everyone elses game play time....

btw, Vudak,  Gumbeau was a Trainer for WB ( Warbirds )

gentlemens rules is no different than having a code of ethics or using good game play etiquette..........

if I purposely dive into 2/3/4 bad guys and I die, then it is MY FAULT,  if I am dogifghting 1/2/3/4 guys and  I was the one to initiate it, then it is my fault......

If I am in a fight with 1 to 3 guys and "WE ALL ARE HAVING FUN" it is our fault


if some vulching, cherry picking horde flying timid arse no concept of having good gamemanship or any respect for his fellow gamers comes diving into any fight be it 1 vs 1 , 1 vs 4, 4 vs 1, 2 vs 5, 5 vs 3.......and just picks at his best opportune time..then he is a avacado and he deserves to be called a avacado and needs to learn etiquette, and learn how to appreciate others game playing time........but he will not.he will run to these boards and whine that "The AvsA ELITE egos, make rules ( btw there really is no rules, just a request to give everyone respect  and  get the same respect back in turn )...... or as I have seen posted, people claiming all anyone wants to do is DUEL......

this is far from dueling, it is different planes, different merges, differing speeds, differing alts, differing levels of how many are intangled in a fight.I have seen tank battles, CV battles, Bomber raids and intercept flights....

but most everyone overshadows every single good point in the AvsA and post Negativity ....

I ask the complainers in this thread to be part of the solution and quit being the negative part , come help MOLD the AvsA in to the Greatness it can be and quit slamming the AvsA for things that you think you see..........but isn't like you see it at all, yes the AvsA has a good few flyers who has big overinflated egos, they whine just like the squeakers do in the MA< and some who hordefly and try to play for score, but this is not the majority of the AvsA players and it never will be......

it is up to the players to mold and pressure the new guys "the right way" with good sportsmanship, good code of ethics to fly by, and to show common courtesy to their fellow player........

any volunteers on helping improve the AvsA?  the door is invitingly open for you to come help....

I am sure every AvsA  CM Staff Member would welcome you with open arms.....

enough of the Negative BS......


~S~

[Vudak]

With all due respect, TC, trainer or not, that statement of his regarding what most complaints of HOs are led me to believe that he has not had his eyes open all that long.

Perhaps the fact that he was a trainer (and therefore dealing with newer players who wouldn't "know") explains that away, but it still had me saying  when I first read it.

Shrug.

[storch]

earlier today I was involved in a furball.  on my side it was vanscrew in a 109G2 and myself in a 109G6. we fought seven rooks one was a P38 there was a Ki61 the rest were F6Fs and seafires.  I shot a seafire off of vans six and in quick succession eliminated two hellcats and another spit.  I heard vans go boom but was busy with the reupping nits now all in spits.  as I was lining up the fifth kill a hellcat humble (snaphook) picked me I think in the Ki61.  it was a fun fight in the MA I acknowledged the participants on 200 and re upped.

if that had occurred in the AvA I would have been pissed, that's the difference between the MA and the AvA.  incidents like that do occur in the AvA but they shouldn't.

[Dichotomy]

toonces and savlan you both make good points and if you know anything about me I am far from an elitist.  I'll wing with anybody so long as I haven't seen them engage in dweebish behavior over time.   If I came across as an elitist you have my sincere apologies as that was not the spirit in which my post was intended.

I'd love to see better numbers in AVA but I don't want to fly the way it is generally flown in the MA's.  I want to fly 1 v1 or 2 v 1 and not get picked when I'm pulling out all the stops against a storch, b@tfink, oldman, dedalos, TC, etc..  Just up your SA people say.  Good in theory not so great in practice.  

As TC said if you have ideas on how to get a large populace in the AVA regularly please feel free to initiate them.  My only request is that we try to keep some of the gentlemens rules in place and play the game with a spirit of sportsmanship and good humor instead of the trash talking dweeb fest that is the MA.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Phil
Any input anyone ?

Here’s my answer to the original question.

First, three reasons that are NOT why AvA numbers are low:

- Badmouthing.  I don’t fly the MAs very often, but frankly anyone who prefers the MAs because he was offended by AvA chatter is just not watching the MA text buffer or listening to the MA VOX.  There is no comparison.

- Etiquette.  It could be that 100% of the people who fly in the MAs like to vulch, gang and pick.  I believe this to be statistically unlikely.  I don’t think anyone who has participated in this discussion has yet said, “Hey, I don’t want to fly in an arena where these things are frowned upon, because they’re what make AH fun for me.”

- Lack of variety.  While the MAs do have more planes available to each side, it seems to me that in practice the vast majority of aircraft one encounters will always be drawn from a group of six or seven.  The AvA - if you count the planes available to both sides - usually has about the same number.


Next, the reasons I think AvA numbers are low:

- Squadron loyalty.  Many squadrons are devoted to a particular airplane, a particular nationality, a particular chess piece, a particular arena, or a war-winning focus.  These folks won’t want to fly in the AvA when the moon is not in the seventh house.  Probably inertia plays a part, too.  There have been recent attempts for some squads to schedule regular AvA appearances, but you can see it’s been a struggle for their leaders.  

- Favorite airplanes.  Many people prefer to always fly one plane type (or maybe two or three).  You only have to watch the many, and repeated, threads on that MA side-balancing formula (“I pay my $14.99 each month so that I can fly my P-51!”) to know that this is true.  By design, the AvA will not allow you to do that most weeks.  A big part of this is also that most people tire of early- or mid-war planes, which are harder to fly and more difficult to get kills in.

- The vicious circle of low population.  If you log in and there are no people in the arena, or only one or two, you are likely to move on to a more populated arena.  The critical mass necessary to draw others in only happens in a comparatively brief time span most days.

- No war.  Much of the MA dynamic seems to be focused on resetting the map.  Four years ago I would have said that this was a relatively minor attraction of the game.  Now I think it is a major attraction, perhaps THE major attraction for a large number of players.  The debates that followed the splitting of the One True MA convinced me that we have a huge number of people who fly to win the war, not the air combat.  Won’t work in AvA, because winning the war porks the setup.

The switch to AH2.  When we went from AH to AH2 and got the new flight modeling, most of the Combat Theater crowd rushed into the MA to try out all of their favorite planes.  It took them awhile to check out the way all the “new” planes flew, and how that affected combat.  It took the map makers an even longer while to make new AvA maps that worked with AH2.  The gap was too long; the regulars got used to the MA, and most of them - for all of the reasons above - never came back.

Bullethead once said that all AvA arenas are doomed to smaller numbers.  In the heyday of the Combat Theater we managed to get just over 100 participants on good nights, and averaged 30-50.  That was back when we had more people interested in the history and in their own fighter proficiency.  I don’t know if we’ll ever get back to that.  In the meantime the staff does its part to make the arena the best place possible for the people who DO like to come in here.

- oldman

[KONG1]

Sheep flock.

Next question please.

[Shifty]

Originally posted by Oldman731
Bullethead once said that all AvA arenas are doomed to smaller numbers.  In the heyday of the Combat Theater we managed to get just over 100 participants on good nights, and averaged 30-50.  That was back when we had more people interested in the history and in their own fighter proficiency.  I don’t know if we’ll ever get back to that.  In the meantime the staff does its part to make the arena the best place possible for the people who DO like to come in here.

- oldman

One of the best points made in this thread.

One thing I would like to add, and I've brought this up before. It might help to have bombers, and base captures in more setups. Plus limet numbers to two or three fighter types at the most per setup. As far as porking the map, that's one off the biggest issues. It would be nice to allow base captures for those that it appeals to, but it porks the arena reseting the map.

If you could make the setup where a limted number of bases could be captured so arena can't be porked that would help. Since that isn't possible we'd have to be on the honor system limiting base captures, and I doubt if that would work.

In the heyday of the old CT like OM said we were able to have decent numbers, and generally cooperate.We had buffs, GVs, and base captures. The whole dynamic changed at some point and it's never been the same.

Cooperation would be the key if the  finger pointing and name calling would stop for a bit. Yes the AVA staff produces setups that appeal to those that fly in there regularly. If those of us that don't fly in there regularly want more input, more participation might be the seed to plant to have more input.

Squad participation should not be frowned on, but also remember if your squad offsets the balance way to one side, split it to even up a bit.  One of the funnest nights I've had in years was a few weeks ago when JG54 and 880 NAS met and fought in the AVA. It was a blast and damn near like the good ole days. If more squads would fly and stick it out, evenn more squads would give it a try.

You don't have to pick a number to wait for a fight, just show little consideration. When a guy is outnumbered you don't have to charge in and make it worse.

You want to be able to use teamwork? Get your squadron in there, and encourgae other squadrons to fly in there. Or check the dang roster if your squad has 4 people in there and there are 4- 5 on the other side... Don't jump a lone con with a fourship. Send one guy down and fly top cover the other guys will be along in just a minute and everybody can fight. If you put numbers in there it draws numbers. If you come in get pissed off and leave after a few minutes, it will always be the same.

If somebody wants to be a cyber tough guy and talk smack to you. Squelch his butt, it's not like you have to squelch 20 or so like in the MA.

Try flying and fighting in the AVA for a few weeks, show some loyalty to the arena, get to know some of the guys who frequent it......... Then start making suggestions to the staff, you can even design some setups and put those before them.

If none of this works and you're miserable with AVA..............Vote with your feet. Leave it and never go back. Don't worry about posting all that's wrong with it, you don't like it anyway, but at least you can say you tried.

[Mister Fork]

Getting back to the topic at hand - the current numbers are indicative to the fact its' SUMMER aka VACATION SEASON..  

People are out BBQ'ing, taking vacation with the family, and enjoying the sun.  When the fall/winter hits, #'s will be up again.

[toonces3]

Well said Oldman.

[dedalos]

I think the main reason the numbers are low is that people cant hide.  With 10 guys in there every one knows what you do and how you do.  It is especially upseting when you get called on it because all 10 now know how you play.  I guess the problem is that if like plaing like that, you don't want people to know about it?  I can emagine how it feels to walk in to a bar and all 10 guys in there go "Ohh, here comes the cherrypicking tard.  wach your walets guys".  This is why the 200 bothers them there and not in the MA.

For some reason, everyone seems to think that with more numbers it would be better in there.  I say, look at the MA.  That is what large numbers do to an arena.

So, if you are one of those guys that think it is fun to play basketball 8 on 2, please stay away.  I cant tell you what to do, but I can tell you you will leave claiming that 200 hurt your feelings.  If you like a good 1 on1 3 on 3 or 10 on 10, thne please stop by and check for yourself.  Most of the stuff on 200 is directed to people we know anyway and we know they can handle it

[WolfSnipe]

well ppl are on aroujnd 10 pm mostly fridays and wedsnday:aok

[storch]

Originally posted by dedalos
I think the main reason the numbers are low is that people cant hide.  With 10 guys in there every one knows what you do and how you do.  It is especially upseting when you get called on it because all 10 now know how you play.  I guess the problem is that if like plaing like that, you don't want people to know about it?  I can emagine how it feels to walk in to a bar and all 10 guys in there go "Ohh, here comes the cherrypicking tard.  wach your walets guys".  This is why the 200 bothers them there and not in the MA.

For some reason, everyone seems to think that with more numbers it would be better in there.  I say, look at the MA.  That is what large numbers do to an arena.

So, if you are one of those guys that think it is fun to play basketball 8 on 2, please stay away.  I cant tell you what to do, but I can tell you you will leave claiming that 200 hurt your feelings.  If you like a good 1 on1 3 on 3 or 10 on 10, thne please stop by and check for yourself.  Most of the stuff on 200 is directed to people we know anyway and we know they can handle it

that pretty well sums it up.  good post dedalot

[dedalos]

Originally posted by storch
that pretty well sums it up.  good post dedalot

Hi honey  

a very good example of what I am talking about are the exchanges between me and Storcita

[storch]

indeed

[trap2000]

Oldman,

You mentioned a combat theatre that averaged around 50 players a night. Would you mind posting a few details about this arena for the newer folks like myself? Was it an Axis / Allied split, historical terrains, theatre specific plane sets, etc.? Was there strat such as field capture? Why is it no longer around? Did we switch directly from the CT to what we have now or were there a few iterations in between?